Dear Jose,

Now-a-days, CA practice doesn't mean the traditional practice alone. Some CAs are engaged only in ISO Audit. Some are engaged in the field of Education. Some do advice for property investment . Some do the work of Cost Reduction. We cannot blame the system. In my opinion; there are huge areas for practice. May be, you could not get good training; but still doors are not closed for learning in the areas of your interest.  Now a student can qualify as a CA  in the age of  21-22 due to introduction of CPT. It is not possible in medical profession. A  doctor becomes super specialist in the age of around 35-40.  This much patience is required to make a very bright career. Even Mr. Narayanmurthi could establish himself in the age of 40.  If you wish to make your career as a professional; surely it will take time to estblish yourself. Till it is established; you have your place according to the circumstances mentioned  by you.  Moreover; if a person opens a show room by investing Rs.5 crore; still it is not guaranteed that he will earn profit. If your compare both the situation then you will find that a professional is in better position. 

If four freshers CAs join and make a partnership firm; they can easily handle various types of activities. People also are interested to have all types of services under one roof. They will also have bank audits easily.

The profession of CA is altogether different than other profession. Here CA himself develop the areas after analysing the circumstances. In the circumstances as you mentioned; still there is scope. The agriculturists  don't have different means of investment.  By choosing wealthy persons; you can develop this area with the help of insurance and mutual funds. Initially; it will be difficult but the moment you win the trust of these people; you will have enough work - this alternative is available when you wish to remain in your hometown and don't wish to leave.  From your circumstances; I presume that you can wait for 3-4 years to build a sold foundation for your profession. Till then; you have to equip yourself regularly in the filed of investment and to accept the work what is available. 

Nobody will teach you how to start practice. Do you think that a businessman will train another person how to do business? Do you hope that  a practising CA  should help you to build your career ? CA firm is not established to build career of one. The "system" is such that whoever is attached with the firm; surely makes his career.  Would you help CA students when you are engaged in practice? Surely not, I presume. Would you open an organisation where you will get nothing to train someone? 

From above it is clear that the profession has some peculiarities and cannot be compared with other professions. 

Many questions raised by me in my previous posting are still unanswered. Many tried to compare with Enron and Anderson and told that Management is not supposed to predict Economic Factors. Management has to take care of internal factors as well as of external factors. If they are unable to predict Economy; then how they will take right decisions ? If someone thinks that it is due to recession then I say they should not claim that they can handle RISK MANAGEMENT. 

Nobody told why so many banks failed in US.  The reason is that wrongly applied Marketing in Finance. They wrongly termed financial services  as Finance Products. Poor Management were happy that they are doing well by applying marketing practices in finance. Why ? Because marketing people were given targets (as they are usually given by the management to achieve) which they fulfilled. It means who deserved $ 2 m; were sanctioned a loan of $ 20 m. This common sense was not applied by the management  what amount of loan should be given to a lender on the basis of his standing.  But here they applied Grading system to make their system easy and misguided themselves because they have happy as numbers were increasing. 

I STILL CLAIM THAT JUST FOLLOW ONE PARTICULAR AREA AND GET EXCELLENCY IN THAT FIELD. WITHOUT ANY FORMAL QUALIFICATION; YOU WILL GET SUCCESS.  

In 1990; we hired services of one Consultant at Ahmedabad. A signboard was there -  ABC & Co., Consultant. Later on; I noticed he was "Real Consultant" without having any formal qualification.  He used to provide FCNR Deposit of his clients to the required banks. 

HE WAS "MANAGING" FUNDS FOR BANKS WITHOUT ANY FORMAL "QUALIFICATION OF FINANCE."

If one refer today's newspaper, he will find that the President of ICAI has insisted to upgrade the syllabus whereby CA students would be required to appear for CASE STUDIES education for 30 hours to check whether they really have some practical aspects. 

The moment the changes are introduced; the CA students will have same types of education system which MBA profession has right now; in addition to what they already have. 

Some days ago; I wrote about the possibility of above  implementation in CA education.

Kudos to the CA Institute which upgrade its curriculum in line with the economic development and needs of the society.

Surendra Sir,

I think its too early to be happy about such news.

Take the example of the introduction of some good subjects in CA syllabus like Information Technology, Strategic Management.

I am still wondering how the Information Technology syllabus must have helped anyone to even learn how to switch on and switch off a computer! The IT syllabus which we have is completey useless, has no relevance. And with the poor infrastrcture ICAI has got, it has created a complete mess and students have faced numerous difficulties to attedn their useless compulsory training course.

Strategic Management, a newly introduced subject is another example of what ICAI wants to do i.e. timepass. Six Sigma, TQM etc sounds great...but all that CA students would know is the definitions and some old literature given in books. ICAI shold have given case studies of atleast 5 companies which succeeded and 5 companies which failed in using these principles. It should have explained in detail about companies that have done these things in detail, with all the circumstances prevailing therin and all other relevant details...thats what differentiates MBAs (from good bschools) with CAs when it comes to management.

And with all this, many foolish CAs and CA students would go on and say that CAs are IT professionals and have good strategic management skills.......what a joke! They would go ahead and compare them with MBAs to say that we know better IT and Management than MBAs do!

Before making any plans for introduction of case studies of 30 hours, they should first revamp tyhe existing syllabus and training pattern, create necessary infrastructure and then go ahead with something.

By introducing subjects like IT, SM and this new ase study thing, it becomes easy to come to media and say that CAs are blah blah...but there is a zameen aasma ka difference between what is said and what exists!

FM again is a good subject, practical one. I have been working on valuations, ratios etc since last 1.5 years. Earlier i had started working by referring to CA books but it was a complete waste. It has peanuts. When you compare the CFA books or publications from Damodaran with the books of ICAI of FM, MAFA,  you will see the difference.

When I see all this, the message I get is that ICAI just wants to do timepass. It will keep introducing all this new sh*t, which would do nothing but create more hurdles for students. All this which I mentioned above has taken away valuable time of students and has not added any value in terms of knowledge for students. Its been kept in the CA course just for the sake of it, so that one can go to media and say CAs are .....

In short, I have only one thing to say that ICAI today is managed like the way Bihar used to be under the rule of Laloo Yadav. ICAI should start introduction of case studies with its own example, as to how the recent developments have degraded brand value of the accounting, auditing profession and CAs in the industry.

Originally posted by : Krunal Raichura
	Surendra Sir, I think its too early to be happy about such news. Take the example of the introduction of some good subjects in CA syllabus like Information Technology, Strategic Management. I am still wondering how the Information Technology syllabus must have helped anyone to even learn how to switch on and switch off a computer! The IT syllabus which we have is completey useless, has no relevance. And with the poor infrastrcture ICAI has got, it has created a complete mess and students have faced numerous difficulties to attedn their useless compulsory training course. Strategic Management, a newly introduced subject is another example of what ICAI wants to do i.e. timepass. Six Sigma, TQM etc sounds great...but all that CA students would know is the definitions and some old literature given in books. ICAI shold have given case studies of atleast 5 companies which succeeded and 5 companies which failed in using these principles. It should have explained in detail about companies that have done these things in detail, with all the circumstances prevailing therin and all other relevant details...thats what differentiates MBAs (from good bschools) with CAs when it comes to management. And with all this, many foolish CAs and CA students would go on and say that CAs are IT professionals and have good strategic management skills.......what a joke! They would go ahead and compare them with MBAs to say that we know better IT and Management than MBAs do! Before making any plans for introduction of case studies of 30 hours, they should first revamp tyhe existing syllabus and training pattern, create necessary infrastructure and then go ahead with something. By introducing subjects like IT, SM and this new ase study thing, it becomes easy to come to media and say that CAs are blah blah...but there is a zameen aasma ka difference between what is said and what exists! FM again is a good subject, practical one. I have been working on valuations, ratios etc since last 1.5 years. Earlier i had started working by referring to CA books but it was a complete waste. It has peanuts. When you compare the CFA books or publications from Damodaran with the books of ICAI of FM, MAFA,  you will see the difference. When I see all this, the message I get is that ICAI just wants to do timepass. It will keep introducing all this new sh*t, which would do nothing but create more hurdles for students. All this which I mentioned above has taken away valuable time of students and has not added any value in terms of knowledge for students. Its been kept in the CA course just for the sake of it, so that one can go to media and say CAs are ..... In short, I have only one thing to say that ICAI today is managed like the way Bihar used to be under the rule of Laloo Yadav. ICAI should start introduction of case studies with its own example, as to how the recent developments have degraded brand value of the accounting, auditing profession and CAs in the industry.

Waah; aapka kya kehnaa! I had read ur similar post before also where u had lambasted SM and IT; and FM syllabus of CA exams. U are superb, bro. keep it up. IF in reality; such sorts of practical exams are implemented; i am sure that will "disguised upgradation" with more harms for students than benefits; as we all know ICAI conducts itself. First thing; they even don't have proper infra. for conducting ITT properly.

I am sure, Case studies wont be different either. E-diary, practical exams under current system isn't feasible either.

https://www.careers360.com/news/4094-Jobs-at-Hawkins-Management-Trainees

See this; even BCom graduates are getting 30000pm. And our icai's placement; majority didn't get jobs; and in ahmedabad ; even "good" students who were lucky to get job got of 3.5lac pa. ( nevertheless equal to this offer;).

Seriously Sir it was perfectly correct and m really thank ful to u that u made the corporate world realise whats really goin on......

Dear Jose and Krunal, 

The original discussion was towards CA vs. MBA.  I have written accordingly. My basic points are not taken care of in your replies. 

Your all the discussion appears biased. You are not ready to accept that Institute is doing something good for the profession. Everytime you try your best to condemn the working of the Institute as if it is doing all the wrongs.  

IF AN INSTITUTION IS DOING ALL THE WRONGS AND STILL IT'S COURSE  IS  AMONG THE MOST POPULAR THEN I WILL TELL IT IS MAGIC WHICH THE INSTITUTE CAN PERFORM ONLY ! THE INCREASING NUMBER OF CA STUDENTS IN INDIA IS ALSO LOOKED AS MAGIC FIGURE FOR FOREIGN COUNTRIES. 

Recently some qualified fresh members have been appointed at Rs.70 lacs packages. I think you also know it. When you talk about MBA then you took the upper side employment and when you see CA then you take the lowest figure. Why ?  I regularly see so many MBA students who are in search of job and they are not even offered a package of Rs.7000/- p.m.

If CA profession is not so useful then why each and every commerce student rush for CA ?  TELL ME WHAT IS THE REASON ?  I AM SURE YOU ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO ANSWER IT BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU ALL ARE ......... 

There are so many things which are to be developed by the student/member himself.  Are all doctors earning same despite having same  qualification ?  The answer is No.   

If some members are not getting higher salaries then the fault is on their side. They thought that by qualifying CA they will get job.  They joined CA training whatever was available because they just wanted to complete it anyhow without knowing the importance of training.  Whereas if a student goes to buy a shirt he tries his best of purchase the best one.  The same is not applied while selecting for CA firm ! 

Qualification is a gate pass to the entry of an organisation.  If one can't perform; he will be in trouble. 

That is why I strongly believe in learning than qualification. I have also seen so many persons who are earning well despite low education.  It means common sense is required to be successful.

You see some businessmen invest (waste) Rs.10 crores in business and very soon  it is converted into a sick unit.

In Surat, property brokers earn Rs.2 lacs per month  -  easily !!  Many CAs are earning well following their advice. 

Hence, to be successful only 20% intelligence is required and 80% implementation thereof. 

It is true that a Delhi University Student is offered Rs.30,000 pm job easily in University Campus itself. 

SO I CAN SAY NO NEED TO DO CA IF IT IS NOT GIVING ANY VALUE ADDITION TO YOUR CAREER. 

Gud reply Surendra sir , I think there is no need to criticize Institute this much.....................

An Simple Question to Mr. JOSE P.   CA STUDENT    

Why Mr jose you choose CA over MBA ? After reading your views and points i am unable to understand that why you choose to be a ca.

And Please consider my point that if you could  have such wonderful knowledge about working of ICAI then after passing out you should join the ICAI as Prez. or any other post. And try to make a Change

please Reply to my question to you

Originally posted by : AKSH KUMAR
	An Simple Question to Mr. JOSE P.   CA STUDENT     Why Mr jose you choose CA over MBA ? After reading your views and points i am unable to understand that why you choose to be a ca. And Please consider my point that if you could  have such wonderful knowledge about working of ICAI then after passing out you should join the ICAI as Prez. or any other post. And try to make a Change please Reply to my question to you

First thing; i had no one to advise me where to take articleship; how to be mentally prepared to take on icai's sick policies to students . When i had joined; there was no restriction on transfer. Being  a cpt passout; it took lots of honkydory things to get articleship and that too in a small-mid sized form with not much exposure. I had compromised with my disappointment of not getting into big 4 or at least big firm of the city; thinking that after pcc i will take transfer into a multi-exposure firm. But f**k to that uttam agarwal; whole world has come crashing down. My CA wont give me secondment nor industrial training; plus i don't consider secondment feasible.Plus this is my second firm. My earlier CA was at least sweet-natured and understanding; but he left india to go abroad. So in order to not to count into my leave period; i joined the first CA firm i came across(only 4 months had passed; so no big4 yet).

Regarding why i joined CA; the programme is good even though articleship period is tooo long. I wanted to go for mba after CA. In today's india; bcom except from select university like du,pu,bangalore uni,mum uni; doesn't have any value. That's why i chose CA.

I will be sitting for CAT,GMAT and other entrances in 2012; so all my detractors , u dont worry. I will also be doing CFA from usa. Till i don't break into the elite b-school; i will be doing a job at a mnc after completing CA. That's the reason. IT's true that after becoming CA; my attitude towards icai might change from being aggressive to being ignoring (icai wont change what can i do); but at least i wont be pounding all the fault at student's head.

As i have no interest of practising; i dont think i can break into the council. The voters wont like my idea; and students can't vote right?????????

Dear Jose, 

In practical life also; such things happen simultaneously. 

Till 1996, we used typewriter.

In 1996; we used WORDSTAR

In 2001, we shifted to LOTUS.

In 2005, we shifted to EXCEL. 

In 2007, we shifted to GENIUS (a software developed by private company)

When we shifted from Wordstar to lotus; and thenafter from Lotus to  Excel and Genius - all the times we had to put the whole data in different programs so that all  we can see all the data at one place. 

If a software programmer sticked his attention only to Lotus so far; one can imagine what would have happened  to him. Our first programmer is now out dated because she could not turned herself into window programming soon after it was introduced.

Till 2006, I T Return was of only 2 pages. In 2007 the Return was made of 22 pages.

Can you imagine that still in CALCUTTA many CAs are filing HANDWRITTEN Return of Income ! This city was BUSINESS CAPITAL at one time. Since it could not mould itself suitable for changed environment hence BOMBAY TOOK ITS PLACE.

CA Profession is such to accept the challenges.  If you wish to challenge the change; then you have to be very powerful. 

Unfortunately; most of CA students cannot think beyond job and that is why so many changes are challenges for them.  This is the reason that they don't  find proper tuning with the Institute. 

Regarding success or unsuccess; I wish to share the following : 

Many a times; some new clients discuss with us for one hour.  After some days we come to know that work has been allotted to other !

What would you say ? 

Here we just try to think what fault was there in our SYSTEM  that they selected another one. 

WE FEEL ALL THE TIME :

THAT RESULT IS NOT FAVOURABLE THIS TIME. 

If i leave CA midway; then i wont be able to see straight into the eyes of my parents. They had wanted to do graduation in economics from london/manchester and then do mba straightaway; but it was i who defied and enrolled myself into CA.

Now it is up to me to clear it. As less than 1 year left of bl**dy articleship(if there is no extension); i can't and wont leave it.

Originally posted by : jose.p
	If i leave CA midway; then i wont be able to see straight into the eyes of my parents. They had wanted to do graduation in economics from london/manchester and then do mba straightaway; but it was i who defied and enrolled myself into CA.   Now it is up to me to clear it. As less than 1 year left of bl**dy articleship(if there is no extension); i can't and wont leave it.

 See Mr Jose, after all that had being talked upon you still wants to be a CA First & then go for MBA depsite having a option to MBA From London

That my Point About CA Vs MBA Thing