to sreejith...

u r right that big4 paying 15k... but all students cant join in big4.. they cant absorb  all article students... and one more thing... y u r comparing with engg,medicines... that is different to our field.. everone tells that CA means.. if any one ready to do hard work.. its enough to become CA. no one raises about financial budget.. bcoz even low budgeted students also can do easily without any financial problem..

There are merits as well as demerits for those who take dummy's.

Merits

They get time to prepare for exams.

They enjoy their life and they do not get frustrate by taking such course

Demerits

They do not get enough training and experience

They have to struggle wen they go to companies for jobs

 

 

 

Also the minimum Stipend for articles is too low  in a city like mumbai Rs. 1000 being the minimum stipend many CA's tend to make their articles work for this sum only.

Dont u think this is one area the Institute can improve so as to encourage articles to prevent  taking dummy? Shouldnt the institute increase the minimum stipend?

dear friend Darshu
 

i am very glad to know that there are some people like you who think correct. I am completely agree with your opinion, The success of students who secure rank with dummy articleship is worthless 'cos anyone can do it with having dummy articleship. Your patience and true intelligene will be tested in passing the exam alongwith doing articleship. The members of the ICAI are not fools( i am really sorry for this word but it will better show my expression) so that they have planned such a structure of course of CA. Everything they plan is the result of lot of thinking for benefit of the students and making them more multi dimensional and dynamic. The success of such dummy articles is meaningless.

Anyone can do it if he have a dummy articleship. The success will be only when you pass or secure rank alongwiht the articleship.

 

have a nice time!

Originally posted by :Darshu
"	No... I dont agree with all of u.....   According to me, Many students are taking dummy not because of our course structure or there coaching problems..... But they are taking dummy bcoz they dont understand the true value of Articleship.....   Most of the students just want to pass the exams but what is the meaning of mere passing in which u dont have any practical knowledge..??? If u cant stand on your own after becoming a chartered Accountant then its better to just not to do this course.......After all the 3 or 3.5 yrs of  practical training not only helps the students to understand the whole concept but also gives them enough exposure......And if students are taking dummy due to prep. in exams then WE are given enough leave for it..... arent we..??   And Why is Ca different from all the other courses..???? The only reason behind it is its practical training along with its study......   And the members of ICAI are more knowledgable then us i.e we students.... So whatever decision would be taken will be the best from their knowledge point of view.......   I m really sorry if I m wrong.... I just wanted to give my ideas as frankly speaking i have great respect for our CA course nd i just cant stand by those who think that taking dummy articleship is good.....   Bye..........	"

 

EXCUSE ME FRIENDS... AND CA'S.... who r participating in this forum... i want to tell u somthing.... here no one encouraging dummy... just i am telling the causes of dummy....

if institute wants to reduce dummy.. the ALL new rules r not correct... like taking transfer in same city...

if institute changes in stipend and period of articles.... then no one goes to take dummy....

 well i agree wit tanuja..3.5 yrs is 2 much..n many of d rankers do join articleship...for d startin period..bt later for d last 7-8 mths..all go for dummy...coz d format of stds n syllabus of ICAI is d toughest in india..as agreed by all..

n bout big 4,dey dnt even absorb 10% of d stdnts..n dey dnt even take transfer cases after pcc...coz dey say v want articles for 3 or 3.5 yrs i.e after cpt....if v take u ppl nw..den u will jus learn n leave in 1.5 yrs..how will v be benefitted by trainin u ??

so dey straight away say dat v dnt entertain transfer cases..

 ya, its right, i too agree that articleship should be reduced to 2 years i.e. tears, but i m not agree with articlship be started after completion of final, but its good to go with training simalteneously.

 

Originally posted by :tanuja...........
"	EXCUSE ME FRIENDS... AND CA'S.... who r participating in this forum... i want to tell u somthing.... here no one encouraging dummy... just i am telling the causes of dummy.... if institute wants to reduce dummy.. the ALL new rules r not correct... like taking transfer in same city... if institute changes in stipend and period of articles.... then no one goes to take dummy....	"

No thats not the case Tanuja. students are not taking dummy only due to their "stiepnds and period of articles". It is the nature of their ca who extensively exploiet them. CA never gives a reasonable leave for doing studies. In fact 90% our ca has passed out after "n" number of attempts, and eventhough he did not understands that leave is necessary. SO when a student finds there is no meaning in doing the slum work in the firm why not to take dummy and do studies. Is he doing wrong anything? And i think increased stipend will not justify the cause....... The overall picture of duummy will not change due to "stipend...& ....". Suppose, even if stipend is increased, do u think all students will do articleship in the manner what icai wants us to do..?? No dear friend, Money can never be the matter for this... thats i think.. u may not be aggree.. i guess!

i agree with  u... 1st i raised abt the work only.. i think u saw this article from 1st... in the middile some one raised abt stipend... even i am agreeing with that... bcoz the stipend money is not enough to daily expences.. soo many students r from middile and low class... they dont want to be burden on parents..

after +2.. soo many r doing cpt...then they r entering in to articles.. the work is same.. and they r not getting enough money.. then they r going to feel to take dummy... tbcoz they even not getting to time 4 studies.... they will think its wate of time...

what u say karan

Ya as u say tanuja, increased stipend may attract the pcc students at early periods (i.e. at beginning) to opt for articleship. Rather they enjoy the office environment. But when they "grow up" and come to finals they may not be satisfied with the "so called" stipend. Let me tell u one fact that ICAI is just doing business and nothing else. In 2006 they started CPT and kept passing ratio at a extreem high point, number of student passed out CPT and the flow of their fees has been increased. Now, if u consider the pass out ratio of CPT has been decrased to large extent. They have earned lot of money, and now they just dont care for students. They make their hands up by putting a CPT passed small kid in office with his "hitler boss". Tell me what a student who has just passed out 12th will understand the office work simply in few days. BUT the hitler wants him to be perfect in his work. At start he enjoys the work, but later on when PCC or Finals came he will definitely choose studies insead of office work with stipend of 1500/- or increaseed up to 2500/- not more than that a ca will give as per icai rules. And finally he takes dummy. Now that ICAI dont want..... What should he do then?

i agree taking total dummy is wrong but without theory knowledge doing article is useless. theory knowledge will come when u get time to read and pass PCC. If u are working daily 10 to 11 hours and outstation audit and u can't get more that 2 month leave then clearing both groups without coaching is very difficult.

students thing 2 years regular article and rest dummy holds good in such a case.

and now for job the first thing which is seen is marksheet not practicle experiance. after qualifing in first attempt go and join better firm get good experiance and then enter in industry. when in a regular article u are taking 1 and half year of leave for gratuation, PCC and Final then it is also like dummy then how come u are doing 3 and half year of article.

having good practicle experiance and  clearing in 4 to 5 attempts u cannot earn more than Rs 4 lakh P.a.

In case of practise u do not start earning from day one. it takes 7 to 8 years to establish your practise then u start earning something. every one is not from a good family background who can effort practice. 90% pepole want to go for job and for that they require first attempt result. competition has increased in last 5 to 6 years.

articleship should start after final and student should get good stipen

u r right karan and mayank.....

Well, the course structure is given in advance, it says that you will have to undergo articleship training for that much years. How on earth you can say just becasue you have joined for the course, it should be reduced to one year or one and half year.

If you are not able to complete it not because of some other genuine reasons but just because of your inefficiency why you people are blaming the members in practice or the institute.

No one invited you to join in my firm for articleship. You came to my office[please read as Office of Any Member in Practice] along with your parent, sit at the edge of the chair, used the words "sir "and "please" in between everyother two words and gave an application for articleship and joined, and at the time itself you know that what will be the stipend you will get, how many years you will have undergo articleship, and you said sir, i will be the most sincere student. Then what on earth makes you to state that articleship period is too long. the Boss is too cruel.

There is a saying, that " Bad workers blame their tools" Now it should be revised as " Bad articles blame their principles/ Institute/Office"

Sreejith........ If you talking about the earlier generation, well, they were certainly not subjected to the type of stress that we are..... And their principals were not so material and expolitative as you guys are.........Principals sign 102, 103 in which it is written that the MAX working hours per week is 35. NONE OF THEM follow this....

 

 And Dont you have anything better to do then making different words from dummy. is this the best you can do ??? ............

And mind you, Dont keep this wrong notion. Students have to say please and sir to CA's coz ICAI has empowered them to train articles.... Tomorrow, If We get a chance to work in an MNC, Even Dogs wont come to say please and sir to CA's like you...... And if you trying to say that we students beg for articleship, Well Sir, We are begging for work, careers, Nothing wrong in that........ And it is miniscule compared to the begging carried out by you people in front of IT Officers & Clients for Unearned Money... Keep that in mind before you speak such things against the student fraternity.

 

And the membership of ICAI of which you are supposedly so proud about, Well, you guys are nothing in comparision to the level of professionalism maintained by ICSI & ICWAI. All you have is an Act Of PArliament and monopoly in signing false financial statements which helps you guys mint money. ..............

All we students want are careers, training. Every student here is willing to work hard ( In the right direction )... If the older generation cannot guide the younger generation and expolits them, Well then I am sorry to say, There is a limit to everything...... Even my CA has exploited my like anything...... I have had enought of it... Abuses, long working hours, insufficient exam leave ( Even when I had extra leaves ), bias towards own son / daughter, etc........................

 

WE STUDENTS SHALL PROTEST NON VIOLENTLY TILL WE CAN.........

 

 

 

Koolleo 87

The ICAI never invited you in person to join for the CA course. and if your office were not good , it is your fault. Students with better potential stuff were able to join some good officer where the work culture and attitude of principle is really good. If you were not able to find a good place why you are blaming the whole world for it.

and. working in an MNC, they will keep ready the pink slip to people with this type of lack of self confidence and the negative mental attitude.

and just becasue you said you are begging for some thing DEAR KOOLLEO,  BEGGARS HAVE NO RIGHT TO CHOOSE. BE HAPPY WITH WHAT IS GIVEN TO YOU OR QUIT. DONT NAG.