MY FEELINGS ON TOUGH CA RESULTS

Page no : 8

Ashok (Industry) (416 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

Mr Rakecha, 

I must have really woken up the 'politician' within you. Typical of their style you have put efforts to look for any articles/forums I have written and bring that up. Whereas my comment was limited to your post in this matter alone. However let me say few things - Your comprehension of my article - Let's make accounting simple - is poor and your intrepretations worse.

The point of the article was to make the 'accounting' subject relevant to business promoters and decision makers so that they find value in financial statements. It's a nuanced debate and not like your post here - narrow and self-serving. If you failed to understand an article written in simple english I can help - just ask me what I meant there. To add, nowhere I have linked CA exams to accounting in that article - not CA final, not inter or not even CPT. My ideas were grander, far sighted and sweeping the whole accounting profession. ICAI doesn't have monopoly over accounting standards anymore. It's IFRS and next, US GAAP that are guiding standard setting across the world. My ideas was that we should focus on more complicated topics in financial management such as fund-raising, practical aspects of M&A, cross border taxation, organization behavious, business strategy etc. We should introduce tougher topics like these in CA curriculum. This was the message Sir. I would not stoop down to garner publicity by comparing exam results and blind jabbing ICAI. 

On the point of advertisement and publicity - Looks like I caught you with your pants down. So you have been advertising! Sadly you choose to ADVERTISE not your knowledge about tax or accounting or law, but your 'political' skills by slandering ICAI and garnering students sympathy. This is like our politicians hurriedly visiting a town soon after a flood or earthquake hits and promising support. But I appreciate you have been honest. I would henceforth take all your statements with a lots of salt. Because your true intentions are something else, which poor students don't know. All they think is - Mr. Rakecha is a practising CA hence he will be only saying the truth. 

Next point - Where have I said below that CA Final exams must be toughest? Mr. Rakecha please read again;

Most of you guys sound like you want the CA qualification, but you need it in your own terms viz easy final exams. Unfortunately nowhere in the world students get to decide the criteria of the courses that they enroll-in It's very well know that CA exams are tough. It has been this way since the last 50 years! If CA exams were easy then the respect that this course enjoys would simply go away. So instead of doing protests (which no one will bother anycase) kindly spend time working towards the course. Else, please go ahead and pursue other courses such as MBA which you think are better. Since you cleared the initial level in the CA exam you are demanding that the entry criteria be strengthed, prospectively to your advantage. What about the future students who will take up these entrance exams? There are many who fail or perform average in the entrance test but do well to clear the final exam and become CAs. You can't have the cake and eat it too. You also benefitted from easy entry level critera. You cannot now say that make it strict. And compensate by lower final exam standards."

Read more at: /forum/details.asp?mod_id=277495&offset=11#.UuR_8RC6bIU

As a practising CA I am assuming you have fair skills at at reading. Nowhere above have I argued that 'CA final exams must be toughest'. I only said 'don't compensate by lowering final exam standards'. These are two different things. This misquoting again is due to the 'politician' within you - try and twist statements that others have made to prove your point.

Mr Rakecha - Please present your arguments in this forum here instead of beating around the bush.  Try be professional and not political. 


Chakshu Arora (IPCC) (31 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

Its not done entry should always be easy an avg student also becomes CA bcoz of dis.U can do so many courses while doing Ca like b.com/CS/CWA/Expertice in any topic

Ashok (Industry) (416 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

Yes chakshu, that is my objection as well. If you make entry tough then so many students will be denied at an attempt at becoming CA. These above comments about CPT are irrelevant any case because entry into CA course is not only through CPT but also after finishing graduation like Bcom. why don't these guys object to that first?


Ashok (Industry) (416 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

So even if you restrict CPT results they can join CA course after they complete Bcom with just 55%. what about that?


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

@ Ashok.....(?)

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You have chosen some part of my post to express your views which are misleading.

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Wihout referring my post FULLY; the conclusion drawn by you is WRONG absolutely. 

A chartered accountant must go into the depth and .....firstly he should not comment personally on someone.

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If you don't agree with  my views, you could object it simply. In this world; nobody is bound to accept others's views.  CA profession is itself based on INDEPENDENT OPINION.

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Referring only first part shared about publicity; you have ignored my views in next para.

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If you think one is misleading CA students; then you can also share your views in another forum to guide the students.

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The major point of consideration is :

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12 LACS PLUS CA STUDENTS IN CA PROFESSION. .
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If 15,000 pass every year as per current results.... . it will take 80 YEARS to clear CA by all IF NOBODY WANTS TO QUIT! . .
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( If sometimes results are good; still it will take not less than 40 years)
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Means after 10 years only 1,50,000 students would be qualified and rest 10,50,000 will have NO WAY TO QUALIFY or TO EXIT PEACEFULLY. (ignoring the present inflow) .

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Ask any CA student whether he wish to complete CA qualification EVEN AFTER 10 years. If there are some, then why not so many?

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CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

This is the PPT of one lecture given at Ankhleshwar before 175 professionals (approx) :

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/share_files/analysis-of-direct-taxes-in-budget-13--55434.asp#.UuTFGfvhW1s

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The following is the PPT where crux of more than 25 articles were given before CPE Study Circle of Surat  :

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/share_files/recent-developments-in-accounting-professional--53553.asp#.UuTF9PvhW1s

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Another one : Global Trends in Corporate Reporting

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/share_files/global-trends-in-corporate-reporting-44677.asp#.UuTGcvvhW1s

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Fraud & Forensic Audit :

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/share_files/fraud-forensic-audit-44678.asp#.UuTGmPvhW1s

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Hope you have referred my posts (in 6 parts) : RESTRUCTURING OF CA PROFESSION.

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Outline on Transfer Pricing :

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/articles/concepts-behind-transfer-pricing-career-opportunities-17623.asp#.UuTHC_vhW1s

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Quotes on Income Tax :

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/articles/quotes-on-income-tax-17575.asp#.UuTHT_vhW1s

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The easiest way to learn all accounting standards :

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/articles/the-easiest-way-to-learn-all-accounting-standards-16542.asp#.UuTHbvvhW1s

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Time management for self employed persons:

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/articles/time-management-for-self-employed-persons-13744.asp#.UuTHq_vhW1s

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Start your own practice :

/articles/how-to-start-your-own-practice-as-ca-cs-icwa-12489.asp#.UuTH1PvhW1s

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venkatesh (articles) (103 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

@ Rakhecha Sir: I read your PM. thank you so much for sharing the information.

Even though, this is not the appropriate platform, I wish to convey with utmost humiity, that your profile is awesome.

I request you, inspite of agreeing on most of your points, to choose a different platform for expressing your suggestions regarding the changes to be made in the CA structure. You have yourself expressed, else where in this discussion that the ICAI has never been in the habit of hearing to constructive suggestions. When the people who matter, are not listening to a person like you, then it serves no purpose in raising such issues at this platform.

I am very sure,sir will agree with me, when I say this website is mostly referred by many impressionable and immature CA students.So these type of articles send a negative message.

presently you are saying , " Glass is half empty" , which is a truth, but, i request you to say " the glass is half full'

Namaste

 

1 Like

Vidya (CMA) (48 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

To improve passing % at CA a very different approach to  teaching is required.  The existing teaching methodologies/ structures are not working.  The existing models - online- hourly based faculty paid teaching- teaching of 100s student in auditorium by authorities all have failed- each method has failed.

Passing CA is a different ball game then getting admission into IIT/ MBBS, while CA teaching has adopted the same methods. At IIT / MBBS seats are limited- there is no such limitation- yes there is no such limitation- so why should a teaching institute should be selected based on rank holders it produces - rather criteria should be passing % at the coaching center 

The entire coaching structure needs a drastic change.  When you are joining a coaching - ask for passing % at the class than the rank holders

 

 

1 Like

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

1000 words can't express what a picture can show.

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This is being shared at another site: what is likely to happen..

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Whether any warning signal like DANGER AHEAD

was there at CPT level?

 


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

POINTS TO THINK :

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1. Whether one should go to produce such goods where CUT THROAT COMPETITION is "ALREADY" there?

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2. Whether one should not try to think for ALTERNATIVES if easily available?

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3. Whether only Accounting and Taxation are the AREAS  to make a BRIGHT CAREER?

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(Ask a CA student whether he REALLY likes Accounting immediatley after joining CA).

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Ashok (Industry) (416 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

@ Rakecha - 

Appreciate your contributions and articles. I was looking for an independent opinion from a senior CA amidst all this slandering about ICAI by students who failed in an exam. But I am suprised that a senior CA like you also joining the circus.

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Especially these arguments about CPT having higher pass percentage versus CA final is patently illogical and seems a classic case of wrong use of statistics. Firstly, in CPT, the quality of questioning (simple, straightforward) and the mode of answering (objective vs subjective) is different from CA final where quality of questions are high (expert level) and mode of answering is essay based. A number of factors like quality of presentation of answers, examiner characteristics (strict vs moderate) and other factors play role in the final score of the candidate. Both these cannot be compared. Period.  However essay based questioning is the best method of checking student's thought process and knowledge. 

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The other flaw in all your argument about CPT having 30% pass percentage is that it doesn't matter because CPT is only an early-entry strategy. Those who do poorly in CPT still have a choice of registering for CA after completing B.Com or BA or any recognised graduate course from a university. If your arguments have to be made logical, you should have said that only students who score a cut-off average of say 85% in final graduation must be eligible for CA course. But I find it surprising that you and other kiddos are not making this argument. Why not? Because you don't have a ready number to compare. Therefore you are just taking two numbers and beating the hell out of it for no reason.

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Another argument is there is no data as to how many CPT pass candidates continue to pursue CA course or if they diverge into other courses. What if there are high aptitute students who clear CPT but also cleared CLAT and enter the prestigious law universtities in India. What if some change their mind about pursuing CA even after finishing CPT because they want to do an MBA. Now don't say that is good for these students as they will anyway become lawyers or MBAs. My argument is regarding the quality of this number CPT-30+% pass rate. Should we knock-off 5% or 10% out of this number? I don't know and you don't know.

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You made an argument about using social media for your publicity and you don't mind doing that. As in its normal business-like to seize on an opportune discussion like this about low-pass rates as it will increase student following for you and your coaching (my emphasis added here). I also had said I appreciate that you disclosed that you are doing all this for publicity. So let me ask you. While you are business-minded what makes you think that ICAI should be charitable and fair to all? Why can't ICAI pursue a revenue-maximising approach? There is nothing wrong about ICAI saying - We like to increase the number of enrollments this year into CPT by 50,000. At the end of the day, ICAI has to generate surpluses, it has to open branches, spread its network etc. While you (Mr. Rakecha I mean) can be business-like, I expect ICAI to be a thousand-times smarter than you and be more business minded. 

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Extending the same argument. I would like to ask you Mr Rakecha - How many students have got influenced by your 'motivation' speeches and articles and followed a particular strategy and not cleared CA finals. What if that student comes to you says - "Sir, please stop writing bogus motivational speeches. These speeches are only misleading". What would be your reply? I will guess on your behalf. You will say "Dear student, these articles are intended for your benefit. I am writing this as free speech and its my opinion only, take it or leave it". While you can go unaccountable you are asking  ICAI which has to shoulder the CA profession with dignity for so many decades, to be accountable. 

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Sir, I know this free speech is a convenient argument for you. But you are an "interested party" in this discussion and not truly independent to give an opinion. The decision of output rates lies beyond few people like you. The right people to decide 'how many CA we need' etc should be left to policy planners like Finance ministry, Human Resource planning, Industry leaders like Tatas, Deepak Parekh (HDFC) etc. Kindly let's be mature chartered accountants and not be populist here just for the sake of getting few admirational comments. 

1 Like

Ashok (Industry) (416 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

Scooter photo. Nice attempt to degrade ICAI. Won't work. 


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 27 January 2014

A person claiming to be professional actually using unprofessional way to directly hit on a person. 

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Students would realize the reality after 5-7 years if they are not warned now.

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With arguments one can win a false case, well known to all. 

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Business is a win win process...if the customer is the loser; then it's a fraud. ICAI has trapped students. Would one agree that by using this money it should think for OWN DEVELOPMENT than the fulfulling the needs of the ALL THE STUDENTS?   By declaring high results at CA Final for 6 years; it has attracted lakhs of students. Students and their parents couldn't realize the game plan.

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Even ATC Certificate awarded to the students is not useful as professional degree. Such candidates must be given compulsory signing authority as Accounanting Technician on Financial Statements which require Audit under any Act.

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An institution can't feel proud if its majority of the students are failure. The true strategy would be to guide them all to make their career successful.

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CPE has been made compulsory for the members. What about Coaching Arrangements throught India for the students? Who needs it first? These are the questions which are unanswered since long.

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Regarding publicity; rest of the readers of this site know better.

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If you think one is misguiding the mass; you are trying to prove that mass has no mind.

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It is not necessary to follow someone. Readers are choosy and select the material suitable to them. If you don't agree; then again I would like to say - you may object but mind your language.

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CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 27 January 2014

Challenges before CA students and care to be taken by them

written about 2 years ago in various posts

and

condensed into one post by a CA student:

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https://s3.amazonaws.com/caclubindia/cdn/forum/files/32_challenges_before_ca_students.pdf



CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 27 January 2014

CA profession "inherently" teaches that one should change his strategy the moment things are changed.

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Can we remain dependent upon few clients?

Shouldn't we try to find more clients and more avenues?

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When results were high; qualified members were compelled to join job at Rs.10-15 k because due to set pattern of exams for some years; they could easily qualify. Such candidates didn't focus on training and were more dependent on coaching classes.

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Now even coaching classes can't help much to qualify. The simple reason : the results are tough (and almost all students have undergone coaching)!

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Due to tough results; the remaining students will get the same remuneration due to non-qualification... as were previously offered to  qualified candidates with high results.

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So the strategy now be selected to have at least one degree in hand which every CA student can easily qualify.

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Note : What I have wrote earlier in the post (link given above); some of the points are not so relevant today.

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