@ Mr Rakecha,

So basically you chose to ignore my pointed rebuttals. You are hiding under your 'mass speeches' and jingoistic language. Basically all this is aap-type politics. Saying one represent the masses and the masses are intelligent enough is the typical aap-type anarchistic attitude we have got used to now.

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Are there matters in our profession that needs improvement? Of course yes. But is rebellion - by defacing the image of ICAI- the method? No. Especially not from a experienced CA.

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I find my debater extremely wedded to his business of coaching etc that he is unable to give an independent opinion on this matter. Sir, please give me evidence to the contrary and I will change my mind. But all I am seeing is your attitude of protecting the business of coaching classses. Fact is, like IIT, ICAI has also taken a tough stance against rote-learning offered by these coaching classes. ICAI is blaming the poor quality of students due to coaching classes which teach them set patterns, ignoring concepts.  This is similar to what IIT did by mandating CBSE to conduct entrace exams henceforth based on school syllabus alone. This one stroke removed the business potential of Kota/Hyderabad based coaching mandis.

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Sir, the fact is your business is affected by ICAI's recent move of focussing on practical questions which are not covered by coaching classes. Rather that changing your coaching material and methods you are attacking ICAI to improve passing rate. Very convenient. 

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All that you are saying is more and more CAs should pass and they should get higher and higher salaries. Unfortunately salaries are not only a function of what qualification one has but also qualities like - communication skills, organisation skills- that a candidate can bring to the table. Post the global financial crisis, companies are wary of adding cost (finance dept) to their structure. But once economies come of the recession, once investment cycle kicks in, companies will again hire and would need more and more finance people. These salaries that you quote are recession level salaries and things will improve once the economy comes back to steam. 

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Two things that can improve the standing of ICAI in the decades to come

1) Make examination highly practical and highly conceptual that students will understand only by deep self-learning and introspection.

2) By doing the above, the business of coaching should  'naturally' cease to exist. Else make private coaching centres accredited to ICAI based on strict criteria.

These criteria include the coachers should have practical experience and contributed articles in ICAI Journal, IIM research papers, regular contributor to popular newspapers such as business-standard, economic times etc They should have appeared before income tax appellate cases or company law tribunals etc. They could be associated with ICAI accounting standards board, contributes to draft exposures on emerging issues etc. I mean these people should have concrete verifiable achievements and not just be self-declared experts. 

Picking only "some part of own choice"  from the "posts" which I have shared

will  give ABSURB results only. 

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For your information; I am not at all engaged in coaching. So your hypothesis is WRONG ab initio that my business has been affected.  The "crux" of my message is known to all the readers (except you) who are familiar to me here since long time. ( don't have any curiousity to know about it....continue your arguments)..

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Nowhere I have posted that Institute should pass students who are incompetent. But it is the duty of any organization to make them competent with proper guidance and training because it has caught them young and charging fee.  Ask students about the quality of GMCS training except metro cities.

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I have already shared at caclub that Case Studies should be the base of exams alike IIM to train the students to face practical situations. Unfortunately all the students spread across the country are not having the similar opportunities to learn . It is amazing that Institute requires EXPERT KNOWLEDGE from the students in all the subjects without providing them suitable guidance and required materials to get them qualified despite charging too high compared to the recent past.

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On the CA results day itself; I have posted one article at caclub :

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/articles/ca-studies-are-always-interesting-19497.asp#.UuaKFc66Zkg

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Please....

continue your biased comments without referring my posts.

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But raising the following queries (you need not answer) :

(isn't it surprising that querist himself is giving choice not to answer)?

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What's your contribution to the site by which students and members have been benefited?

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Can you disclose your true identity with photo?

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Why there is a question mark on your identity at this site?

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Can you share your VIEWS to crack the CA exams by majority of the CA STUDENTS?

(Keep in mind : results will remain tough).

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If students can't qualify with competitive skills; then for what sake they have joined the course?

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Do you have any idea to solve it in the workable manner?

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An analysis of the above questions and likely answer would reveal the fact that all students would not be able to qualify. This point I have already raised in this forum. Is it misleading or demotoviating? It is actually a warning signal for majority of the students to choose the best for their career with STRATEGY SUITABLE to them...NOW.

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In my above article; I have given my suggestions (you need not refer it).

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The system has been in place for more than 60 years. During the last decade results had improved, and particularly in last 4-5years pass %age has touched 20% for both groups.

when CPT was introduced the objective was to cut down the course lenghth and attract students at young age. At the same time ICAI presidents favoured that atleast 25000-30000 CAs should be qualified annualy.

But economic crises of 2008, then euro zone crisis and our own domestic economic slowdown has resulted in slump in demand for CAs. every one be it engineers MBAs all are facing unemployement problems.

Results this time has been quite low. and its a temp phase. comming attempts will observe improved pass %age.

But this will not ensure success to those who still feel that mediocre studies will help them get through this. CA studies demand diciplined and consistent efforts. Months of efforts are needed to qualify these exams. 

Enormous career opportunities with CA qualification itself. Demand and Supply gap is relevant for those who want to join INDUSTRY only.

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Every subject gives at least 5-6 careers of different stage.

For example; if we take Income Tax itself :

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1. Return Filing, Tax Management like advance tax and TDS.

2. Tax Audits

3. Handling Scrutiny Assessment

4. Search Cases

5. Appeal Work

6. Tax Planning

7. International Taxation

8. Coaching

9. Taxation of Trusts ( a renowned career not yet attracted many).

10.Project Planning

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So the true requirement is to prepare students with right direction and infrastructure

than to first grab them and then leave them on their fate.

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Originally posted by : Ashok
	Two things that can improve the standing of ICAI in the decades to come 1) Make examination highly practical and highly conceptual that students will understand only by deep self-learning and introspection. 2) By doing the above, the business of coaching should  'naturally' cease to exist. Else make private coaching centres accredited to ICAI based on strict criteria. These criteria include the coachers should have practical experience and contributed articles in ICAI Journal, IIM research papers, regular contributor to popular newspapers such as business-standard, economic times etc They should have appeared before income tax appellate cases or company law tribunals etc. They could be associated with ICAI accounting standards board, contributes to draft exposures on emerging issues etc. I mean these people should have concrete verifiable achievements and not just be self-declared experts.

I appreciate these suggestions. But unfortunately; some council members are running the coaching classes and due to this only; results were declared high; I doubt. Just calculate 10 lacs students * approx 75000 = ?

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It is said (today I don't accept)  that ICAI is a visionary institute. If it is really professional; then why it has left this business in the private hands?

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Is this fact not known to the rest of the council members?

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Looking to the increasing numbers of students; what parallel arrangements the ICAI has made for their coaching?

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If it were not prepared to produce skilled chartered accountants required by the Industry;

then why the entry was made easy with CPT?

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Calm down Mr. Rakecha

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Firstly one spell error - is it ABSURB or did you mean ABSURD ?

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Ok, now on to the debate:

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My identity is not important because I am here only to clear the air and share my views. I am not here for personal publicity, unlike you. One may use this publicity to run coaching classes under own's shelter, run classes at someone else's centre or take sessions at Insititute. One may use publicity to attract good talent (ie articles) to one's firm, get references etc. There are so many benefits of publicity. Fortunately, I don't need any of this.  I am not saying it's a bad thing. I just don't care for them. Which is why my identity doesn't matter.

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You need my identity for your aap-type politics. Sir, I may be of your age or the age of one of your articles or may be your senior in practise - it doesn't matter. My views are the same. People who profess to stand for student community cannot escape their liability towards students merely by blaming ICAI. 

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Your behavior of asking for background is just like politicians which I kept stressing. You are unable to get rid off that and present a coherent argument. When cornered you are resorting to identity politics. Sir, I never asked you to put your photo and details.. so why are you asking mine? In fact I can present arguments even if I didn't have to see your face everytime here. You photo and background doesn't motivate, scare, bother, irritate or encourage or influence in any manner. It's you who is very bothered about me. Which means I have achieved some success in getting at you. 

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Merely saying case studies should be included is not enough. People still hold the cliched view that IIMs are what it is because of case studies only. In fact case studies are being dropped in many b-schools as they have found it contributes very little to student potential in real business world. Are you aware of that? Because case studies distort reality. 

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On the second part, you have raised some points which can be discussed. Most of the programs conducted by ICAI for the benefit of students takes place at metros only. ICAI offers coaching also at reasonable tuition fees but I am not sure if it reaches all towns in the country. I am glad I led you to discuss on those points rather than focus only on pass percentages. But again I am disappointed that you ended your arguments with high pass percentage in CPT. HAHA. Old habits die hard sir!

I read your article- CA studies is always interesting!!

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There also in the final para (which you call sixer) you talk about politician segregating their electorate population !!!! I was right then. You are always thinking like a policitician. Sir, atleast stand in CA elections and change the fate of the Institute which in your opinion is not doing a good job. At least you have a bag of tricks.

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But the trick you tell students - focus on 3 subjects and score high marks? Is this even a strategy? You are grossly misleading students by asking them to focus on 3 subjects when common sense will tell you all the 8 subjects are capped at maximum of 100 marks each. I am sure taking this 'dangerous' advice students would have 'over-worked' specific subjects only to find that they just got average in that subject and below average in the rest of the subjects. Sir, the concept of constraints - there is only limited hours of study. It's better to focus on every subject including ISCA. 

Originally posted by : rohan
	The system has been in place for more than 60 years. During the last decade results had improved, and particularly in last 4-5years pass %age has touched 20% for both groups. when CPT was introduced the objective was to cut down the course lenghth and attract students at young age. At the same time ICAI presidents favoured that atleast 25000-30000 CAs should be qualified annualy. But economic crises of 2008, then euro zone crisis and our own domestic economic slowdown has resulted in slump in demand for CAs. every one be it engineers MBAs all are facing unemployement problems. Results this time has been quite low. and its a temp phase. comming attempts will observe improved pass %age. But this will not ensure success to those who still feel that mediocre studies will help them get through this. CA studies demand diciplined and consistent efforts. Months of efforts are needed to qualify these exams.

Well summarised Rohan. I am glad as a student you are able to present the bigger picture in a succint manner. 

@ Ashok

I hope you do understand the fact that just the "Eurozone Crisis" and the "Economic slump" do not merely have an impact on the Employment Opportunites of students.

If one has talent and is well conversant with the Analytical and Verbal Abilities of the studies which is being commanded of him, he surely wont have a problem getting a plush job.

Focus on the quality and presentation, the money will follow.

Hi Piyush,

Individually, one shouldn't be too concerned of what happens in eurozone or anywhere. One should focus on deepening knowledge, improving communication skills, reading a wide variety of topics and as you mentioned presentation skills. And through the recession companies did come to campuses and hire candidates. Because the economy is still growing, whether it's 5% or 8%, growth is there. But India Inc is facing depressed conditions since last 5 years and it ought to have some effect on the 'aggregate level labour cost' that they are willing to incur. Most of the large companies need to control cost and may not hire with the same passion as pre-2008 metrics. 

@ Ashok

Creating a record in its placement history, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) has placed three of its candidates at a record salary of close to Rs 70 lakh with Singapore-based Olam International. This is the highest ever salary offered to fresh CAs recruited from the ICAI campus, the apex body that conducts the CA examination and places the successful candidates every year. Earlier, a record salary of Rs 38.25 lakh was offered in 2007.

I don't think companies will hesitate to hire young guns with good knowledge wether it be pre or post 2008.The above figures have quite a lot to say.

@ Piyush -

Sure that's my conviction as well. The better your scores (and better overall candidacy) are the higher the offer they will make. I am also arguing the same thing - just passing is not enough. Companies are differenting between candidates and offering the best guys higher salaries. Olam is a good example. But one can't be immune from macro picture. Today corporate scenario is certainly depressed, but not terrifyingly bad. A good way to look at is a) how many companies are coming to campus yoy b) what is the median salary levels c) what is the student-offer ratio. Only by looking at all three we can conclude if hiring is robust as before or not. But I am optimist, I think individual talent will never go unrewarded. Cheers!

@ Ashok

"The world is certainly a better place now!".And thats not me who is saying that, I hope you'll concurr with Bill Gates too.(Yes, he just said that a couple of days before or so)

The current Economic Scenario is not just simply a slowdown in Manufacturing grwoth vis a vis Economic growth.What you must understand is this meltdown is not so much as unwillingness to bolster subdued economic results of the companies but "The unwillingness of the current government to provide appropiate impetus to various business houses in terms of reforms in policies."

@ Ashok

Yes he was speaking purely on economic terms to CNN and he even mentioned with a slight hint about the recovery cyprus economy was undergoing.