Originally posted by : Punit
	Comparing IIM grads with CA's is comparing Apples and Oranges. However  @ Sreev Well just have a look   @ Student profiles @ IIM's. You have overwhelming majority of Engineers.  This is very much due to the way CAT papers are set. The Quant section is most of the times beyond reach of guys who have not taken math after their 10th grade.   It dosen't offer level-playing field for graduates from other streams.  I say this, Coz to quality for IIM's, it your 'relative performance' which matters. So you are always playing the catch-up race. It's not their branding/quality of education which is questioned but their intake policy, which definitely needs revision.  While, out in CA @ entrance per se, you get level-playing field.  So lets not be 'Naïve' enough to not understand the inherent flaws of CAT! Or are we in awe of IIM's :P

Still i have a lot of reservations against what you have said.

1.If you take a look at the recent IIM student profiles, you can find a good amount of people having B.A. Economics graduates and B.Sc. Graduates from non math streams also. Eg: Sanjeev Bikhchandni of Naukri.com, Shantanu Prakash of Educomp, Rashesh Shah of Edelweiss Capital, K Ragavendra Rao of Orchid Pharma, SB Dangayach of Sintex and lots on

2.Ya, CAT lays more emphasis on your ability to solve some mathematical skills but haven't the people from non mathematical background proved that you need not have an engineering degree to crack CAT and CAT can be a belled with the right amount of aptitude and effort. Still, if you dont agree, you have to say that CA CPT is also not a level playing field. Cos if you look at the people joining CA, most of them are from Commerce background. It doesnt offer a level playing field for people from science streams though some students from science streams have also qualified CA exams any level must faster than some Commerce students.

3. In IIMs relative performance matters. yes thats why see when two students of same IQ compete togehter for entrance in IIMs they try to put in their best and thats what makes them distinct . In CA two persons of same IQ will qualify but do they have the same amount of success in industry??? Mostly no, in industry, you are competeting with a lots of persons having same IQ as u, Higher IQ than u and Lower IQ than you. So relative performance matters here also. In IIM they are given a chance to show their relative performance at the initial stage but in CA after so much years of hardwork and dedication after acquisition of so much knowledge. So, if you say that If IIMs intake policy is not based on quality of knowledge and needs revision. Then you have to agree that CA entry scheme via CPT is also not based on knowledge. Ya, in all four papers for which you are taking one word exams, it will be sufficient if you are good enough in two or three subjects and the rest can be ommitted. Yes, you can see many students either neglect maths(students from non maths bg) and some neglect accounts or economics(ppl from science bg). SO, CA CPT also needs to be changed then. (I am not against the quality of subjects at IPCC or final level and the marking system in those levels. But not in support of CPT. PE1 was good where a student needs to have good knowledge in all four subjects to pass the exam. Yes, you need to score min 40 in all four subjects and a min total of 200/400 to qualify)

SO the conclusion is that let us not be naive enough to not understand the inherent flaws of CAT alone but also of CA course also. So, since both have flaws, CAs are not in awe of IIM Grads or vice versa.

Number of Students Appearing for CAT: 200,000 (roughly) Intake: 1200 (roughly) Probability of Making to IIM: 0.6% (Quota’s not considered) So, then CAT is much more competitive then even our Finals. The discussion was centred on, the qualifying examinations. Anywayz.. 1) I have read Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish 2) https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/services/education/IIMs-to-court-more-women-arts-students/articleshow/5562820.cms I am in a good management school (UG), yet have not had a single alumni making to IIM, in its history. And we have our whole batch writing CAT. I hope you understand what I mean. My only point was, they need to make modify CAT, so as to make it level-playing field. Its good they are proposing to have CAT all around the year as you have CPT, GMAT, SAT etc. Probably that would solve the lacuna to a extent. I think you have to agree on it :P With CA – CPT, you start very early @ first year of your Graduation (17-18 years). Moreover, CPT does not require any exhaustive study. I am from a non-commerce background; I cleared CPT in the first attempt (apart from clearing IPCC at first instance). Secondly, you appear for your IPCC @ second year of your Graduation (May – Nov) + @ Third Year (May). I presume if cannot clear it then, call it quits. Even if you want to try @ MBA, CAT happens in NOV @ 6 months, CET @ 9 months. So it leaves you with good back-up plan. Secondly, I don’t understand why all CA’s should be paid on pay-scale given to IIM’s. You cannot pass CA Final on your third-fourth attempt and expect a pay-scale equivalent to IIM’s. The argument can hold only for rank-holders. I do hope there is some statistics on average offers made to them, or those who qualified on first attempt. I think that would show a more better picture of CA as far as success in placements in concerned. Moreover, you need to understand, that not all those who enter IIM’s are eligible for placements. They have quite strict standards to qualify for placements. So statistics, definitely do not bring out the real scenario. I know a IIM-A grad who works for 35 K.

Regarding making CAT a level playing field for persons from diversified people is a good move, i agree to it. Ya, regarding CPT, it is a well known fact that u can enter CA at the age of 17 or 18 but the thing is that the way in which exam is conducted. you urself said that CPT is not stressful and students can clear with less effort. Now, thats the prob boss. Cos, here wrong projection is caused by ICAI. Some students who clear CPT with lesser or no effort take CA light heartedly with no seriousness. So, i personally feel that CPT must be conducted like PE1 where a student has to have indepth knowledge about what he is studying and also they may get exposed about what CA is all about in the begining itself. Ya, i agree that till you pass grad, doing CA will be a good time pass for people who just do it for tp or for those who took it by accident till grad and then switch to other course. and here, I am not arguing that all CA s should be given a payscale equal to IIMs. For your reference take a look at ICAI's placement figures in the recent past

 

 

Month - Year	Candidates		Percentage	No. of Companies	Highest Domestic Package (Per Annum)
	Available	Selected
Feb - Mar 2007	4296	1840	42.83%	118	10 lakhs
Aug - Sept - Oct 2007	1823	1127	61.82%	101	11 lakhs
Feb-Mar-Apr 2008	3781	1496	39.57%	109	12 lakhs
Aug - Sept -2008	3817	961	25.18%	77	10.61 lakhs
March - April 2009	3842	508	13.22%	54	9 lakhs

Source : https://www.placements-icai.org/

and here is the placement figures of IIM Kolkatta

https://www.iimcal.ac.in/corporates/downloads%5CIIMC%20Placement%20Report%202009.pdf

You can see for the same period the Avg domestic placement package in IIM Kolkatta is 12 lakhs approx whereas ICAI's highest  domestic placement package itself the same. You can get a list of candidates appointed for a salary of 12 lakhs from cmii-icai.org. All rank holders or first attempt passouts doesnt get the same starting salaries as IIM grads gets on an Avg..Why?? Cos of Relative merit apart from academic merit.. you have said that IIM select their intake based on Relative performance. Thats what reflected here. Thats y they get salaries more than what a CA ranker can dream of..

Regarding Success in Placements, you can yourself see in the statistics itself the placement rate of CAs in industry. for recent stastics refer https://www.cmii.icai.org/imgs/Brief_Statistics-Campus-AS-10_web10102010.pdf

You can find a majority of CAs are settled for a salary of5 lakhs to 7.5 lakhs and also placement percentage is not even 40%. SO, more than 60% are without jobs at placements. you can also find a large no of ppl going for salaries of Rs.3.25lacs to 5 lacs.the highest salary paid is not even near the highest salary paid to a candidate in IIMs campus placements and yes only 79 candidates availing a salary of 9 lacs and above. Ya, IIMs maintain a good policy for selecting the candidates for placements as you said. Thats why they have a good placement record. No doubts on it. Ya, u said u know a IIM grad work for35,000 p.m. You can find lots of CAs work for the same salary. ICAI's placement statistics itself shows it.So, whats the point here?? Still, CAs are not superior to IIM Grads and all. If one wants to earn salary shooting towards the sky, then not only being a knowledge freak helps..I have been emphasising in this point from the begining u see. Let the toughness of IPCC and FInals continue. But CPT's standards needs to be revised. Also, articles regulations should be revised to an extent that they should not end up as being bonded cheap labour cases. yes, stipend limits needs to be revised to the extent that it helps to meet the cost of education, conveyance, and cost of living(this will be useful for students who have immigrated to cities for studies)..These low limits of1000 to1500 needs to be changed and yes, even ICAI is considering it but it should be done more early. Also transfers should not be banned at any stage. ICAI should bring in change to the course structure that it helps in real life situations like honing problem solving skills, thinking out of the box, improving communication skills, EQ,etc.. Yes, not all things are bad in CA course but definitely there is a scope for some constructive changes which i am trying to tell and yes, also i am also trying to tell ppl not to talk bad of IIMs for sure.

“Still, CAs are not superior to IIM Grads and all”. I have already said comparing CA’s with IIM grads is comparing Apples and Oranges. Its futile and foolish to do so. I think the scope of our discussion was CPT vis-a-vis CAT. I presume we have reached some sort of common ground on that. And let not those doing CA/planning to do CA get affected by all these figures. Statistics is like mini-skirt, it hides more than it reveals. I dont think people, should make career choices based on some placement figures. Let people pursing the course, not get demotivated. Baccha Kabil Bano Kabil....Kamyabi to sali jhak maar ke peeche ayegi! https://taxguru.in/chartered-accountant/ca-placement-top-salary-zooms-to-70-lakh.html White Flag :P

I am also not asking ppl to make career choices based on some statistics and all. And i am not demotivating anyone from doing this course and all. Just wanna make a point that no course in inferior to CA or vice versa and btw, I gave figures of IIM for domestic packages and the  information that70 lakhs start which u have mentioned above is not a domestic package but an international package. It is for placement in Nigeria or Zambia.i.e some terrorist affected African Nation. Comparing domestic placement package with international placement package is also absurd. In your terms, comparing apples with oranges

dude..the link out there wasnt to compare it with anything.. .

It was just to fill in optimism about what most of us on this site are pursuing.. 

Lets not get into shadow boxing.. .