the institute is jst making all these chnges just to showcase that it is working.... this time UP Aggarawal has gone absly wrong and the explanations he is giving are totally baseless.....if he acually need to see that the articles are getting the proper training then he must adapt some other steps like internal assesment by principal etc....already the exam pressure is immense we have only 3 months for preps...and befor one month before exams u are giving such announcements.. THIs time we should stay united against these decisions.....we cannot take each and every baseless action...raise ur voice....

	only medical, IIT & IIM are also very tough exams.What is the reason for that ? Astronamical science need more expertness/accuracy than medical....even a small change in calculation will affect the result of lounching.........there can be one or two astronomical experts from millions.What about the expertness of a pilot who is piloting the life of hundreds of lifs. Even a bus driver need expertness in his profession. If a CFO take wrong decision & company closes, nobody will say that he is not a doctor so that there is no problem for wrong decision because of lack of expertness. Every professional requires expertise in their own field. Finance qualification is tougher in worldwide. The percentage of pass of even Pakistan CA is very lower.Otherwise lay man can depend any MBA finance or M.Com for managing finance.Why CAs? Then why IAS exam is more tougher than medical ?.....they are the persons who should take decision for the nation (even if it is claimed by ministers).This decisions will affect even the future of nation.So not only doctors..................... The quality of the degree is recognized by the people achieved that degree.	"

 

Your reply is not understand to any one , what you want to exactly say pls state it  in clear terms ....i m not  getting why  u r criticising CA. prabhakar sir who is supporting student s.......

Originally posted by :PS Prabhakar
"	Hi guys, I am a CA passed out in 1980 and in active practice. I became so livid when I came across a recent announcement in the ICAI website about the eleventh hour change in the exam structure applicable for Nov 2009. I wrote to the Prez and his council collegues and as expected of them, NONE replied yet. I am reproducing my mail: Dear Mr President, I am appalled to see the "important announcement"  in the Institute's website  regarding the Nov 2009 examination - about the Examination Committee having taken some important decisions in respect of (a) syllabus change and (b) pattern change. I do not see how it is even possible for the ICAI to take such far reaching decisions regarding the examination which is slated just about amonth away, when the students are almost in the final phase of their preparations. How is it possible for the students to adapt to such changes, especially on the issue of every question being compulsory in nature? Is the committee out of its mind? Or just because the committee thinks that after all they are dealing with CA students, who cannot organise themselves, like students pursuing other professional courses like medicine, engineering or law,  for any form of protest against such blatantly unilateral, legally untenable decisions taken with abject non-application of mind? What kind of temerity is this to announce it on Oct 1st for the Nov examination and brazenly adding that "Students may note that the first paragraph of this announcement is in addition to the announcement already published in the October, 2009 issue of the students’ newsletter – The Chartered Accountant Student". No other professional educational institution, which runs predominantly on students' money would attempt to do something like this. And what a funny preamble? "CA course being a professional course, practical training is an essential part..." We didn't know this all these years and neither did the students! If giving 'practical training' any importance, why does not the ICAI think of introducing something like 'internal assessment' by the principals? When such 'wisdom' has suddenly dawned on the council or the committee, as the case may be, I will ask you all only one question. Is any one of you prepared to take the examination once again even under the easier norms that were prevailing when all of you wrote the examinations? My indignation on the committee's insensitivity is so much that I do not wish to make any appeals. Therefore I demand that such ridiculous, mindless changes be not done in the eleventh hour. If at all you want to make any changes, prepare the students well in advance and take the student community in to confidence and do them. I hope correct wisdom prevails and the ICAI corrects its course, well in time. Regards Prabhakar Unless you guys raise your voice in protest such mindless madnesses will continue to be unleashed on to you by the powers that be. Please at least urge your coaching class teachers who you think to be close to you to raise appropriate din.	"

Respected sir,
 

I am thankful to you , for being so student concerned .

Sir, i request you to kindly forward the issue to the senior members and past president (Such as CA. T . N. Manoharan, CA. Ved Jain... And other sensible past President of the ICAI.)

Thanks a lot sir.Even I have sent a letter and still not recieved any reply from the institute.

Originally posted by :Aldrine
"	Originally posted by :PS Prabhakar "   I have seen many people have, amidst their busy schedules of revisions, responded to my posting in this forum. Thanks to all of them. When I wrote the letter to the President  and the council members, I was hoping that they would also get bound by their own diktat of answering every question. However, I realize now that they have given themselves the CHOICE not to answer any inconvenient questions posed to them. After having become a ‘realised’ soul on this issue, I thought I would at least my views known to a larger section of the student community not with any view to rally them in to any mass movement or to create any union-kind of group, but to make you guys aware that there are people around who care. It is not me only.  Perhaps I have more time than others and have better abilities to articulate my views. I have spoken to several CAs and many of them were as disappointed as I have been. In fact, one prominent teacher to whom I had forwarded my mail had wryly concurred with me on this issue but surprisingly refrained from adding anything further. I wrote to him back:  “Are we all going to keep quite but? Do we have to allow such brash, whimsical, insensitive decisions to prevail unprotested and unquestioned? Are we going to allow the posterity to suffer because of our proclivity to digest any nonsense? I urge you to do something. You owe it to the student community which considers you as a true Guru.” Having said this, I have to admit that in today’s scenario, the ICAI has become an institution which has to defend itself on many counts from different quarters. Government hardly consults them in issues of accounting or taxation but regularly insults them. Their views and appeals, be on budgets , NACAS, extensions of deadlines for filing returns are treated with disdain. The Govt nominees in the council are questioning many decisions. CAG wants to audit the accounts. Press bad mouths them at every conceivable opportunity. Regulators ignore their demands. In this situation, where can they show their valour? Only against hapless students. That’s what they are doing. Khanna has asked whether I have done anything and if I have suggested to the Council anything. My letter was to the Council member only. Only after waiting for almost two days for a reply, I decided to make my letter public.  Not even one of the 32 council members sent even a token reply. And thank you, Prakhar Saxena for your ardent wish that I should become the President of the institute. For your info, even to become a regional council member, you need to have in built hypocrisy, servility, mad fan following, glamour etc. in today’s situation, besides a lot of money spending ability. Bhagyesh Ravange, you have suggested a union for students. It will hardly be possible or even good. First of all you should have the courage to at least raise your voices collectively in the most responsible manner possible. After about 30 years, I can afford to be brash but you guys have to be controlled even when you revolt.  And btw, elsewhere in this forum I saw you writing that the “all compulsory questions” situation is no problem for you. Please have one view. Rama Krishna has quoted from Prez’ letter. Forgetting that he has used the word  “principles” instead of “principals”, let us see that the Prez has actually harped on the need for qualitative practical training. There is however, no answer or solution possible from him or ICAI as to how to ensure at least near-uniform training all over the country for all the students?  There is no structure prescribed nor there is any mechanism to ensure that students receive any quality training. Most offices use them as low-cost temporary employees and in upcountry places, they are even used as messengers or to canvass life insurance business run in their spouses’ or childrens’ names.  Nothing more can be said about such kind of deplorable scenario! Let me finish this missive by mentioning one last thing. Elsewhere in this form, one Mr Manish Soni posted his views on the ‘no-choice’ issue  to mean that there is nothing wrong in ICAI’s decision and had compared  CA profession that of medical profession. He had concluded that one has to boldly face the fast bowling.  I wrote a reply to him, as below: Mr Manish Soni, My posts containing my letter to the Prez of ICAI (and the council members) and my views are posted elsewhere in the forum. Your advice to the students is well meant, no doubt. But I would rather not you compare the medical profession with that of accounting. My opinion is that we do not need the kind of expertise in the accounting profession as you would need in the medical profession. Those are dealing with human lives and no corrective journal entry is possible there after you do a mistake. In this nation for creating such doctors dealing with precious human lives or for creating engineers who build roads, railways, bridges, flyovers etc. we have all kinds of colleges and institutions - promoted by politicians, who are not known for any quality. And we know that to become a doctor in this nation, all that you need to have is money in tons. In a country which cannot pride itself of producing top quality medical or engineering professionals, why take pride in producing top quality accountants? This is a journal entry profession, after all. And remember, I have the right to say this as I am a CA myself and have been one for the past three decades less one year.  If the ICAI wants expert knowledge, then let them go for open book examination and set questions on case studies, analysis and interpretive skills. I will ask you a question. Have you seen any imposing library of medical books in a doctor’s clinic and would you be able to trust any doc who would turn to open a book to find out a cure for a disease? Would you not feel an instant fear in your mind that if the doc tells you that the specific problem that you complain about was in a chapter that he left out in choice in examination? On the other hand, you can of course see an intimidating looking library in almost every CA’s office. And the clients coming to a CA’s office would, in fact, be happy and more confident if his CA refers a book to answer a query! In this nation, you have choices in medical course examinations and you are actually supporting for a no choice situation in CA exams when, as such the syllabus is huge and ever expanding (but not necessarily useful and practical-oriented! - for instance, systems audit has an insignificant passing reference in MICS paper and students are not at all exposed to the nuances of world trade, GATS, WTO, currency trading etc.).  When a CA, after passing can actually, proudly and without having any trace of compunction, refer books and deal with situations (I don’t have any complaint over this – it has to happen this way only), why trouble him/her when he/she writes the examination like this? And why make things more difficult by demoralizing them when they are at a revision stage? Your advice not to criticize the Institute is comical. Today the institute is run by insensitive people and they deserve to be eulogized or what? We are not talking about fast bowling, my dear, but bodyline bowling. So, student-friends, just as I cannot accept that an unprotested aggression by ICAI as valour, I also do not accept your timidity as virtue. That’s all I would say, for now.   " Not only medical, IIT & IIM are also very tough exams.What is the reason for that ? Astronamical science need more expertness/accuracy than medical....even a small change in calculation will affect the result of lounching.........there can be one or two astronomical experts from millions.What about the expertness of a pilot who is piloting the life of hundreds of lifs. Even a bus driver need expertness in his profession. If a CFO take wrong decision & company closes, nobody will say that he is not a doctor so that there is no problem for wrong decision because of lack of expertness. Every professional requires expertise in their own field. Finance qualification is tougher in worldwide. The percentage of pass of even Pakistan CA is very lower.Otherwise lay man can depend any MBA finance or M.Com for managing finance.Why CAs? Then why IAS exam is more tougher than medical ?.....they are the persons who should take decision for the nation (even if it is claimed by ministers).This decisions will affect even the future of nation.So not only doctors..................... The quality of the degree is recognized by the people achieved that degree.	"

 

 

Hey aldrine, U are right there is no excuse available to a professional. 

 

But CA cannot be compared to other professional courses where there are classroom training sessions and genuine training Imparted by the mentors, instead of just extracting work out of cheap labour.

 

Hey i am only trying to say that CA and other professional courses are like chalk and cheese - 2 worlds apart.

 

This medical student goes to the library and asks for a book on anatomy. The librarian gives him the book published in 1995.

And the student says,"Sir, can i have the 2009 edition please?"

Librarian:"whatever For? has anyone discovered a new body part?"

 

 

Can u say the same about IFRS, Taxes and myriad laws sometimes not understood by professionals themselves? Thats the difference - Finance is relatively new, yet growing at the same pace of the expansion of the universe.

@ Aldrine

Am sorry to say this you seem to have an perception problem , you seem to enjoy whatever institute announces against the students...why do u keep comparing CA with IIT's and IIM's? their ball game is totally different, U compare Indian CA with the Pakisthan's CA?? Well why dont u compare it with AICPA??   Does an CPA from US need to go thru tormenting process of 3 and half years of articleship?? Does he needs to clear so many papers like CA? Does they have the level of bureaucracy like ours?

Can you please tell me is there one single announcement in the past one year which the student fraternity welcomes?? I can tell u almost all of them are not welcomed...why doesnt president take students into confidence? Rather they take all the steps which are most beneficial to the members at the cost of students ? are students not equally important ?

 

Yes u r right Aldrine - Professionals cannot be excused for not knowing something, and continuous learning is the key to success for professionals.

 

The risk and value of the medical profession is different and above that of CAs.

 

But coming to our situation, ICAI must think from students perspective also occasionally.

Regarding PCC, this is only an intermediate examination, one does not have to carry the burden of upholding the profession's prestige does not crop up - so why the paradigm shift in emphasis one month before the examinations?

I think it would have been OK, but then there is the compulsory questions issue. I think it would have been OK if the pattern had been followed all alogn, but now we will have 2 categories, some who passed with optional questions and those who did not - Will one group be less respectable or knowledgeable than the other? Then why this decision?

Also i think the pass percentage should not be the benchmark for the respect of the profession, rather it should be the quality of those who pass out. With compulsory questions - the deciding factor will be luck.

I have suffered the brunt of this Institute.I have no regard to the lack of transparency in their policies.I really appreciate the efforts of Mr. P.S. Prabhakar.

 

Mr. Prabhakar, you atleast we have someone who cares for the students.This institute lacks Mavericks like you, otherwise things would have been much better!

Mr. Prabhakar, in you ,atleast we have someone who cares for the students.This institute lacks Mavericks like you, otherwise things would have been much better!

Mr. Prabhakar, in you ,atleast we have someone who cares for the students.This institute lacks Mavericks like you, otherwise things would have been much better!

This change should be brought with retrospective effect... from the time those who r making al this became Chartered Accountants......

 

ICAI not reacting to our problem and I dont even see a unity in students,no doubt the ICAI takes us for granted.

 Thank you Mr. Prabhakar...

A similar incident had happened with me in Kolkata and I protested against it by mailing to "The Telegraph". However no action was taken and I thought of starting a forum here but felt afraid. I am reproducing the mail here verbatim,

Dear Sir, if such is the attitude and non-compliance by a premier institute which conducts the most esteemed CA Examinations, it is no wonder that the scams are getting common and the Institute pretending to curb that without looking into its own defects.



I hope this piece of information will be helpful for you.

Thanking You,

Regards,

Ashish Berlia