Each and every ICAI president have their own pattern, one is inter, other is Pe-ii, other is PCC ,another is IPCC and this will go on and in the future each CA's have prefix before their name as CA PE-ii, CA-PCC, CA-IPCC and it will goooooo on. The "AS" consistency is not followed in ICAI. Now the articleship is used only for creating Master and servant relationship. Interestingly now ICWAI have also begin to follow this pattern.

1.Pass the CPT/ PE-I/CA foundation  by whatever name called after 12th std.

2.pass IPCC/PCC/ PE-II, after 6 months or 9  months...(I feel institute should allow this flexibility depending on the preparation of students. Because sometimes...particularly in cases where students are bright...they just waste time in revision or waiting 4 the exam to come.This has what had happened with me.This would help to reduce the overall course completion time & this should be allowed at each level.so there would not be a time waste).

3.Pass CA FINAL.Once a student pass Final level, his grasping power, knowledge of the subjects, maturity level & expertise would be much more than that of a CPT or PE-II passed students..(This too should be allowed to be given after 6/ 9 months of passing PCC/PE II,depending on the person's ability.) 

4.Then only the training should be  commenced.If one starts training after completing his FInal.then there would not be any worry about sitting late night/not  able to give justice to study etc...as that tension has alredy gone.PLus the student would be more dedicated as he has alreday invested 2.5 to 3 years in studying.SO training wud b like having cherry on the cake.Even the   strong theoratical knowledge base would make it easy for students to grasp the things quickl.Even the members would too be happy & satisfied with the quality of the work.At present..members r not really happy of quality of work done by CPT passed students as sometimes tyhey dont have the basic knowledge of tax,law etc.....(Actually, its not their  fault...what do u expect from a youngster who just finished his 12th.....he cant b an expert & cant expaect to behave professionally as well.)This would go far in improving Principal - article relationship..& then the true GURU-SHISHYA Parampara would be followed.

Yes Chandan as u said there is no consistency in CA Course....This gives a bad impression .Bringing IPCC with in short period of time , just 2.5 yrs back they brought PCC ......This makes outsiders a bad impression on Course....So many  people till now dont understand " what is the actual structure of CA COURSE"

If they maintain same courses i mean whether pcc or ipcc it will be identified as Unique .....

See other courses like IAS or like any other courses , they dont change from time to time like here...

Change is needed ...change in Quality is required ,but not change in the courses...

Regarding change in study pattern, I can say that It is a good initiative & necessity to be in tune with the rapidly changing corporate environment.It is to be welcomed by students that they are getting the opportunity to learn the latest development/accounting systems/ change sin legal world.But while changing the syllabus care should b taken by ICAI that the  existing students should not b left unattended/ unsecured. THis has already  happened with PEII passed students.As now they have to face competition from a CPT passed students..Compare a person like me who has satrted his CA since 12th & a CPT student who too has started his CA with 12th. A PE II student has to complete his course in 5 years after 12th,while a CPT student completes it within 4 yrs after 12th..THis is ridiculous...So, what I mean to say is that the institute should see to it that the existing student should not face hardships because of change in study pattern...Before changing the study pattern, instituteshould invite suggestions from students as well.It can seek help through web site like this too.Every effort should be taken to change the syllabus to meet the current corporate scenario. BUt truly speaking, it does not mean a frequent change  in the whole study structure.ONly the content of the subject should be modified. However, basic study structure can be changed once in a 5 year or so .

Hi Preethi,

While your suggestions are really great and well thought of I would however give it more crystallization.

1. You say after 12th the entrance level.When exactly? Time must be given for that too.One cannot expect all students to finish the CPT exam after their 12th like IIT JEE and even if they finish it, it adds little value to the course.CPT must be made tougher and time must be given like 1 year.(You said students do revisions and waste time.Well, revisions is what inks the concepts in the subconscious mind and also the students if rushed with the syllabus in small gos and intervals have a tendency to forget the concepts)

2. CA exam can be made tougher because now the articleship is cut.I see no harm in it.IIT JEE is the toughest exam on earth and that is why we see only the best and brilliant engineers from that institute and it has worldwide reputation too.Forget the question whether they stay in the country and serve the nation(I believe that "Brain-drain is better than drain-of-the-brain" which is happening in India with all the quotaraj and caste politics)

3. Guru-Shishya parampara is fine but what about Candidates who dont want to practice? Majority want to work in MNCs and other companies.So, considering that the current Industrial training can be kept for the 1.5 year practicum I mentioned.And those who want it under an auditor can do it too.But rules regarding minimum payment must be made clear to members.

4. Also, there must be a rule in place stipulating that every practicing member must accomodate atleast one such student.Else, members would not accomodate the students or pay them abominally low pays.This is where the issue of "Who bells the cat?" comes because members will flex their muscles against such a move.

5. Syllabus changes must be made at every 2 year/ 3 year level in increments and not drastic changes.Given the current pace of changes worldwide(immaterial of whether there is economic recession or not), if one sits with Panscheel type of Nehruvian plans(5 year plans I mean) then the Institute is doomed and cannot keep pace with the modern developments.

6.These changes should be made to known by way of official feelers, atleast 1 year to 6 months in advance, so that students can keep pace, now that training has been postponed to the end, they would be abreast(they have to be rather, no excuses)

7.Never change the names of the exams like Intermediate to PE2 to PCC to IPCC.I would personally like to meet the chairmans who did this rotten mess and have some straight talk as to what they achieved by this other than confusing students.An amendment must be brought(or a subclause added to the Chartered Accountants Act, to prevent the petty egoes of the Chairpersons thus; to not affect this aspect).Just keep internationally accepted and understood names like Entrance level--->Level 1--->Level 2.(Do not keep prehistoric or Colonial names like Inter or Final or confusing names like PCC IPCC PE2...Which seems sophisticated but brings guffaws by way of Murphy's Laws into play!).

8.We still follow the British aspects very much for this course, while they themselves have changed! This is the sad irony.(Maybe even Lallu Prasad Yadavji might have some raw intelligence and village bumpkin commonsense to understand this and change it--seriously not joking! ;) but not the intellectuals of our Institute who keep endlessly debating in the council meetings and come up with a distasteful concotion! I have been privy of the details of one such recent meeting, which really spilt me up into laughter!)

9.Invitation of students views is a wonderful point you have brought but it must be made such that the means and the werewithwal for such a process of elicitation of views must be kept in a transperent and easily accesible manner.A consensus-ad-idem approach or Poll approach would be fantastic and not mere internet views being sought{ICAI is showing these days a definite bias by responding to internet queries more than a personal query made by a student,unless the student knows persuasive techniques or acts well(in an emotional manner) }

10. Regarding existing students suffering etal all these should be smoothened out  and one streamline system must be kept in place, when this system-recommendation of mine is adopted.

11. These and other changes have to be moved politically to bring these utopian ideals as a practical reality.I know this would bring different reactions but then unless political intervention is sought,  the ICAI would  not change its stance.And this has to be brought in subtly(this is where power brokers come into play behind scenes).Else too much politics would mean corruption of our Esteemed Institute.

12. I would try to bring these changes as a one-man army behind the scenes using my influence and other means of approaches.My friend in heaven, Im sure would bless me.And so will the students I guess.But I also request some wise person to sit up and notice and bring it into fructition for the benefit of students.Even though I sit in the far shores of America, my heart cries for my country and our esteemed Institute.

It is one thing to be innocent and ignorant but in a  vast country like India, one never has to be naiive about approaching certain(or all) issues.

But whatever said and done, the current system with its ban on secondment, it is not only a bane to students but also to the profession itself by way of attracting lesser number of students(detrrent to quality students) and also by the threat of other professional bodies.Im sure sane, intelligent and visionary-minded members would understand my point if they think properly than having a parochial satisfaction that they are going to rule over their articled clerks.

A proper system of democracy would never keep anyone under the mercy of anyone.This is a primal sin and ICAI is guilty of it as of now.

Never ever lose hope though...There is God! I believe in it! In you and in me, in all including the erring people too! This God of small details would look into it.(I dont want to abstractize further here)

So long dear friends.

YES RIGHT MY VOTE GOES TO VS............

All above is True whatever VS sir Said,

but pls let us know when u will goin to prsent this points in front of ICAI .

TO Saurabh &  all other participants,

THis thread is posted to invite suggestions from students. So, pls dont debate on who is right & who is wrong.I would appreciate if u all can post ur valuable & logical suggestions.Pls help VS Sir to help us.

Dear VS SIR,

THere is one humble request from my part. PLs let all of us to know as when u r going to visit ICAI. So that I can post my suggestions asap.I hope  & Pray that they listen to our valuable suggestions. This is the least expectation from them.ALL the best.

Dear All,

I like to be secretive about my views.I help all,Im quite open as to what study materials,reference books,etc you have to follow for success,etc but then when it comes to such things(these are equal to political things) one has to be very discreet.If I now, tell something like.,"Next week Im going to the ICAI" What would then happen? The ICAI people who are watching this forum would get alerted as to who this person "Vidhyashankar"is and then it wouldnot be good for me.

Also,this has to be done incrementally and if in one go I go and say this to ICAI,then they will feel like they are being pushed over.

First things first, ban on transfership should be removed as the complaints of the students are genuine and not a grey area.

Later step by step we can concentrate on ameliorating on the stuff we discussed.

OK sir,

I respect ur privacy. The reason Y I asked u abt that was bcz  that I still wanna add some more suggestions & I thought That might b u would go to visit them without taking note of it.

I want to clarify certain points.But I dont think so that I would be able to do justice with all of them ,right now. But would definitely try to have clarifications  from VS Sir ASAP. Little busy r8 now. Would opine later.......

Preeti,

Thankyou very much for constructively contributing to this thread.Infact, you were the only one who contributed a lotof original points despite being a student.This shows your good maturity level.Kudos to you!

Also, thankyou for showing me certain points to highlight in my points.The debate was healthy and interesting.Please do not take it personally what we have discussed.

I wish everyone would participate in these constructive suggestions and give more and more points.Always the "Best can be bettered".

I wish ICAI followed(follows) the "SIX THINKING HATS" methodology of Edward de Bono to come to Council Meeting decisions, such assinine decisions regarding secondment ban and other issues would not have cropped up at all! I request students too to buy that book or atleast browse through the internet for the concept.The concept is simple but deep in its philosophy, not a childish one, because we at our Investment Bank use it fruitfully.