Dear Rakesh,

   Can u pls upload the research paper. This is the first time i m hearing about this paper. I dont say that ur institute name should not be changed. Its not in our hands. So i m just saying that we have to wait for the Supreme Court's Decision. Each institute is superior to its members. ok. So dont try to use words like BEG and all in public forum friend. They are all my past members. So pls try to avoid these things in a public forum friend. Its my humble request.

Whatever has been narrated by Dear Rakesh is true one. ICAI struggled in this manner in initial phase to recognize in this manner.

But the fruits of that acceptance we are enjoying because so far our Audit Reports were never commented so adversely in comparison to foreign Audit Firms.

In 2003 or 2004; RBI instructed all Banking Companies not to appoint PWC for Auditing !

Can you imagine such thing which is known as Top Auditing Firms ? 

(Now one can easily understand how the issue has been "managed" later on).

I am in favour of CMA name to CWA.  Let the competition increase and fruits be enjoyed by the society !  Ultimately it will benefit to all - professionals and the society.

The Government has also enacted Competition Act to break the monopoly of one.

ICAI has also Post Graduate Degree in Management which is really a tough one but the cost is negligible.  People of India now find easy to pay handsome fee to the MBA Institutes who guarantees the career.  

But believe me; a student  who joins professional course of either CA, CS or CWA; ultimately makes  a good career - it is immarerial whether he can pass it or not.   Because I have not seen a student unemployed who has undergone practical training of these professional courses.

Moreover; some CA firms are interested to appoint a person who has experience in auditing because they know it very well that if they appoint a qualified person; ultimately he will leave the organisation very soon - the day he finds another opportunity.  

Regrading the Change of Name issue :  

CWA Institute should show their Research Work on Management and certain name of members who are at helm at some business organizations to prove its candidature to the Government if someone is opposing. 

Each one is unique in itself - only great vision is required to prove it. 

Dear Narayanan

uploading the file as required by you, i have great respect for the founder of the CA institues but in the indian parliamentry system we need to beg for our rights.  

Thanks for supporting  the name change of ICWAI.

Name change matter is not in suprime court, it is now under discussion with Group of minister. finally will go to Parliament. and parliament need support of the members which i sees ICAI have more as it have strong lobby in the Govt. of India.

Lets hope for the Best

Rakesh Kataria

Dear Rakesh,

       Thanks for the file. All d best for the name change. AS said by u, LETS HOPE FOR THE BEST

Thanks and regards,

Mukund

Mr. Surendra as mentioned above is correct "lets live in the world of compitition, Good product will survive and bad product will be out of the market. but all parties nees level playing fields. "

To remain in the market ICWAI needs internationally recoganised name for the profession, like doctores in India if named Vaidya then nobody will recrute Indian Doctors, same thing like internationally CWA  are named as CMA, than indian CWA's needs to be given correct name.

thanks

Rakesh Kataria

ICAI, has lost its status and dignity by creating a straightway opposition of the name change of ICWAI

to ICMAI. They are afraid of this name change that ICWAI may be reckowned as the only Management

Institute in India. If they look back to their history they must see that they had not won this title CHARTERED by the royal charter of England. They were given this title by default.

They don't feel ashmed after Satyam fiasco. They shoud beg mercy from 110 crores Indians.

an ablushed always walks through the middle of the road.
 

1.ICAI should allow name change for icwai.

2.should arrange a MOU for protecting Indian accounting professionals with ICWAI and a pathway for membership both ways.

3.ICAI and ICWAI should coordinate international efforts in accounting and finance space.

SIMILAR ACCOUNTING BATTLE IN NIGERIA.

Submitted this link under "news", but the owners of this portal CAClub in their wisdom thought this was stale, hence have not posted it. never mind. So here it is.

Abuja — There is a growing disquiet within the Accounting profession in Nigeria over the delay in the passage of the Bill on the Institute of Chartered Public Accountants (CPA) and the Chartered Institute of Management and Cost Accountants (CICMA) by the Senate after these Bills scaled through the House of Representatives early this year. These two Bills are not new to the National Assembly as they were passed by both chambers during the last legislative regime. Unfortunately, they were among the over 50

Bills that were not signed into law by former President Olusegun Obasanjo before the expiration of his tenure.

When President Umaru Yar'Adua came into office he recognized that these Bills are meant for the purpose of enhancing and increasing efficiency in the profession but had to follow due process by sending them to the National Assembly for the new law makers to pass them. Mr. President also recognized that the Bills are in tandem with the Professional Bodies (Special Provision) Act 1972 and freedom of association as enshrined in the 1999 constitution.

The House of Representatives made the first, second and third readings of the Bills last year and eventually passed them early this year and transmitted them to the Senate for concurrence.

On the CICMA Bill, the Senate did the first and second reading and referred it to the Committee on Establishment and Public Service under the chairmanship of Senator Mohammed Ahmed. The committee had public hearing on the Bill and even had interactive sessions with stakeholders in the Accounting Profession including the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria (ICAN), Association of National Accountants of Nigeria (ANAN), Office of the Accountant General of the Federation (OAGF), Office of the Auditor General of the Federation, Federal Ministry of Finance, Chartered Institute of Taxation and the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Nigeria. A letter from the federal Ministry of Education which gave the Institute a clean bill of health was equally tendered before the committee.

Apart from ICAN, all the other stakeholders were in support of the passage of the bill in order to encourage excellence and professionalism in the Accounting field in Nigeria. ICAN opposed the Bill on the ground that multiple institutes in the Accounting profession may lead to proliferation. It is instructive that ICAN never questioned the professional competence of members of the Institutes seeking parliamentary recognition, their ability to train world class Accounting professionals, their examination syllabus, list of external Moderators, nominal roll of academic and support staff or comparability with other professional bodies (local or foreign).

The Senate committee, however, held that ICAN's objections had no correlation to the CICMA Bill and also that the amendments suggested by ICAN on the bill had no relevance. The committee then unanimously recommended to the Senate to pass the Bill moreso since the two chambers had already passed the same bill in 2005.

At this point, the politics of monopoly came into play as forces opposed to the deregulation of professional bodies went into high wire lobby to kill any Bill that will open up the space in the Accounting profession.

There were reports that some of them visited some Senators the night preceding the day Senator Ahmed presented the report of his committee to the full house. When the committee eventually presented the report, the Senators went into clause by clause consideration of the Bill and this was when the Bill was killed on the ground that the passage of the bill will lead to proliferation as argued by ICAN. Of course, ICAN officials in the gallery forgot themselves and started jubilating and singing victory songs.

However, further investigation has put a lie on the argument that Nigeria already has many Accounting professional bodies compared to other nations. Presently ICAN and ANAN are the only ones backed by Acts of parliament. All over the world, the most recognized and prestigious Accounting body is the Institute of Certified Public Accountants but in Nigeria the Bill to establish that body is still pending in the Senate for no tenable reason.

Proliferation is certainly not an excuse and the Senate has unwittingly allowed itself to be dragged into the politics of monopoly which ICAN is spearheading. It took a lot of political will for the government to pass the ANAN Act. ICAN did everything they could to frustrate the legitimate aspiration of ANAN members. But today, Nigeria is reaping from the good work of ANAN through the high level manpower they are bringing out from their training school in Jos, Plateau state.

If the truth must be told, the only concern and fear of ICAN is the possible loss of revenue and stiff competition if more professional bodies are recognized in the country. In almost all the proven cases of corruption in the country Accountants play one role or the other but ICAN has never come out one day to reprimand or sanction their members for either outright collaboration with the looters of our treasury or for gross negligence. Yet Accountants are supposed to be custodians of public trust.

Indeed, ICAN has failed this country because of its inability to enforce code of conduct on its members. A lot of companies and banks like the defunct National Bank of Nigeria have folded up or are gradually going under in this country as a result of the mismanagement of the resources of the corporate organizations by the management. Yet their company annual accounts are audited and signed by supposedly high profile chartered ICAN members! It has now become fashionable for blue chip companies in the country to import Auditors from abroad every year to audit their account because they have lost faith in the ability of their counterparts within the country to give them accurate and reliable reports. Some of them were even reported to have actively engaged in cooking up Annual Accounts for unregistered companies as revealed during the Hon.Ndudi Elumelu power probe in the House of Representatives.

Another of their top shots was a governor in this country in the recent past and ICAN has not queried him over his handling of the funds of the state that led to his impeachment. Ethics and Code of Conduct appear to have no place in the ICAN dictionary.

Despite being on the scene for several decades ICAN has not deemed it fit to establish a school like ANAN where Accounting students can be trained and retrained as obtainable in other countries. Anybody, including a road side cobbler without any formal education can become an ICAN chartered Accountant so long as he can memorize their syllabus and dump it on paper during ICAN membership examinations.

Instead of dissipating energy blocking other accounting bodies from operating, ICAN should take a cue from ANAN and set up a post graduate school where intending accounting students can be groomed as practised in other professions like Journalism, Law and Medicine. Their concern should go beyond trivialities and parochial pursuits.

In other professions in the country like Engineering, Media and Medicine, several bodies abound and nobody is shouting proliferation. These bodies give room for specialization and their members are allowed to belong to the body registered for people that share same specialization. But ICAN will not allow that in the Accounting profession.

Maybe the Senators and ICAN need to be informed that some countries like the United Kingdom, United States and Canada have several Accounting bodies and more will be registered when the need arises. For instance, in the United Kingdom they have the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants; the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales; the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy; the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants; Institute of Chartered Accountants of

Scotland and Association of Accounting Technicians.

In the United States some of the registered Accounting bodies include Institute of Management Accountants; American Institute of Certified Public Accountants

National Association of State Boards of Accountants; Information Systems Audit & Control Association and the Institute of Internal Auditors. Even Australia with its small population has at least three independent Accounting bodies namely CPA Australia; the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia and National Institute of Accountants in Australia.

Pakistan has Institute of Cost and Management Accountants of Pakistan; the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan and Pakistan Institute of Public Finance Accountants. The situation in other countries where professional bodies have long been deregulated is not radically different from the countries above but in Nigeria ICAN, still suffering from hangover of anachronistic monopoly era is shouting proliferation in this millennium.

The Senate further needs to be reminded that in the history of the National Assembly there is no bill from either of the two chambers transmitted to the other chamber for concurrence that has been killed apart from the CICMA bill. This might be a bad precedent unless it is redressed. Fortunately, the Senate Standing Rules has a provision in Section 54 that made it possible for the bill to be resurrected and passed. The bill will, of course go back to the appropriate committee for due process before it is resubmitted to the senate. While that is going on there is now no reason why the Bill on the Institute of

Certified Public Accountants cannot go for the second reading in the Senate.

In spite of the total opposition by the CA's of Nigeria, CMA's prevailed and a CMA body has been established in Nigeria.

This is similar to what the ICAI is doing and this time too, ICWAI will prevail, just as it prevailed  during its constitution in 1959 inspite of all the efforts ok CA Kapadia who was the then President of ICAI opposing the formation of ICWAI.

ICWAI is the destiny's child, see it grow from strength to strength with every hurdle thrown by ICAI. The fun has only started, all over again.

Dear Friends,

I was really very surprised and shocked on reading the messages posted in this forum. You call yourselves professionals and are venting so much anger and wrath on NAME change issue however why don`t you first inculcate some professionalism and ethics in yourselves. While some members raised and debated the matter judiciously and maturely some members used degratory and immature and totally insulting. It is shocking that instead of raising genuine matters and points people are insulting ICAI and challenging its credibility without getting into finer details or facts. Blaming ICAI to be jealous or corrupt etc and giving audacious reasons why ICAI is opposing name change is purely unprofessional. Yes, even i althought not a CWA support the name change o f my fellow friends to CWA however i feel that this is a matter whose nitty gritties are with the top councils of the respective institutes and we should respect whatever descision they take since we are not aware of each and very detail and intricacies of this matter.   Even if members or students want to express their reservations against ICAI or comment on this issue they should do it professionally such that no member of student of either ICAI or ICWAI is hurt.

Unless we inculcate these communication skills and ethics even name changes will be unfruitful as at the end what u are INSIDE matters not just the OUTSIDE name !

I encourage further debate on this issue but in a mature and professional manner

Regards

CA YASH MARDA

Why should there be a debate in the first place?

If there are people here who do not know the nitty gritties please do not even participate in the debate. First get the facts and let us then debate.

TOTALLY AGREED WITH MR.DEVARAJAN

Dear Yash Marda

ICWAI is independent institute, may be some members of ICWAI are not agree with name change issue but 90% members are agree on the issue.

Now the issue is  fight between ICWAI and ICAI is over, it is now shame to our nation that despite 1.7 lacs CA’s and 0.60 Lacs CWA in nation still we do not have Management Accounting institute in country.

Internationally so many vacancies are for the post of Management Accountant but Indian’s are not eligible for the same, even Pakistani and Bangladeshi are selected for the same as they have name Management Accountant institute.

An ICWAI member is more capable than other country members due to course contents and training method but only problem is name is not suitable for the post.

ICAI needs to think about the matter, if they think they are also capable of doing Management Accounting area then they should also apply to change their name “Institute of Financial and Management Accountants of India.( IFMAI)

IF this solution is acceptable to ICAI than we have two institutes ICMAI and IFMAI and it will benefit to members of both the institute.

ICAI is presently wearing two HATs. One Regulator and antoher education provider. As an education provider it is trying to protect it's Brand name  with the help of Regulatory status given by Govt of India.

There is a background for ICAI's fear . In UK, CIMA members are in high demand as Industry prefers Financially qualified business leaders. ACCA is known for its certification and auditing. CIMA is really grown to International recognition, all just because of it's contents of the course and research. They surpassed ACCA.

Similar thing may happen in India. But finally, who is benefiting. The corporates, public and the government.

It is very clear that in India , the three professional courses have distinctive markets to cater.

ICAI - Auditing and certification +  opportunities in the Industry

ICWAI - Cost Audits, Management accounting + opportunities in the Industry

ICSI - Corporate Governance, Compliance + opportunities in the Industry

As far as Industry opporunities are concerned, the corporate India is more or less mentioning both qualifications i.e CA/ CWA . Sucess depends on the individual leadership strenghth and not what qualiffication you possess. If some one want to succeed by Brand name, it will not sustain for a long time unless you offer sustained quality.

ICWAI should first attain the brand image of getting the name changed to ICMAI and then it can start increasing the enrollments and there by  availibility of funds for research activities.

Since ICAI has conflict of Interest, Govt should form independant committee and see that the benefits of change of name to it's members india as well as Internationally.

Hi,

In my view name change is very much required and that should be INSTITUTE OF CHARTERED MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTANTS OF INDIA (ICMAI).

All other institute of other countries and india are in favout of name change from ICWAI TO ICMAI.

While IIM has no objection why ICAI raising this concern. They should not supress ICWAI due to their undue influence to cut the competition and to keep their monopoly market. In a democratic country whole power (finance power) should not be in one hand. ICAI formed before indipendence i. 1949 and ICWAI formed after independence 1959. and it is very sad to know in democratic country like India there is no freedom even to change name. If ICAI is objecting for name change then what about the distribution of Statutory power to ICWAI? ICAI also behaving like Britishers. Government also influenced by ICAI.

This should be dealed in Supreme Court.

Every body thinks that ICWAI is limited to only Cost Audit as it has the statutory right to sign on Cost Audit Report only. But the fact is that CWA is all about Management Accountancy and Cost accounting is a part of Management Accountancy. Management Accountancy means the accounting which guides the management to take proper decision and give very useful internal report (MIS reporting including costing reports) in all aspect to optimise its resources. Cost means- Cost of Product, Cost of Service, Cost of Capital.

ICAI is for Statutory financial audit. It does not mean that it is the only body which should do all commercial things like Management Accounting, Project Analysis, Valuation, Taxation etc. Government should take a lead role to make the three institutes (ICWAI, ICAI, ICSI) competitive and equally importance insted encoraging monopoly by a specific institute. As we know parant institute of ICWAI is CIMA. They have strugled like anything to change name from ICWA London To ICMA London And Then CIMA LONDON. it took 80 years to make the changes and make the premium institute. All other institute of other countries have changed their name and broden their scope as per the need of the present commertial global world.

ICAI may opose n no. of time to kill the market competition and keep monopoly market. But Govt should take care of the institute. I think ICWAI should sue a case against ICAI in Supreme Court for interfearing in growth of institute. What ever ICWAI is doing is to make the institute premium and as per the need of the present and global commertial world need. So, in a democratic country one should not encourage monopoly in market.

 ICWAI should have statutory right to sign on Internal Audit, Indirect Tax Audit  & certificates (Excise, Service tax, Custims, Sales tax, VAT and CST), Year end stock valuation. CWAs are the appropriate persons for MIS reporting. because Internal Audit is for management, MIS reports are for Management. At the same time Capital Marketing i.e. what CFA institute is doing shold be come under ICWAI institute as we have no separate legal institue for it.

Cost Audit is to be extended to Service Sector also. as now a days it is one of the important sector. cost of service is very important. 

In short. not only name change scope and statutory authority for practice should be extended.

Govt. should make proper decisions in this aspect.

.