nice article sir i m agree with u

I support Vasundhara's view point fully.Instead of streatching the discussion too far we should think of taking concrete actions which will be beneficial for the students,both present & future.We all wi;; agree that we are students of a very prestigious profession which has a proud past.There are many members of the Institute who are occupying very high positions both in the public & private sector which made is all proud.But that doesn't in any way mean that you've to follow the Institute blindly & agree to whatever decision it heap upon us.The suggestions posted by Vasundhara specially point 13th & 14th require further discussion & view points of senior members like that of Prabhaskar sir's should also be sought.I hope everyone will share their views on the above points,else we"ll keep on suffering in the name of this & that in the hands of the Institute.  

i think some action shud be taken.  otherwise even nov 2010 results wud go the same way

Dear Mr Prabhakar,

I would request you to hold your horses before you jump to conclusions based on perceptions and ignorance of facts. As a person who has had first hand access to examination valuation, I can definitely vouch for the the quality of the examinees. In fact I used to wonder often, how on earth the ICAI is declaring results at the rate of 20% and 30% in the past, when the actual papers valued by us yields barely 10% pass results (based on two papers at PCC / IPCC Level and One paper at Final Level). In some cases, it is deplorably low at 3% or 4%! And I am not exaggerating.

As to your reference to MBBS / BE / MBA etc. lesser said about them, the better.... Education and employability are not the same. Most of MBBS, of late, turn out to be absolute rubbish, and have no value unless and untill they take up some MD / DM / MS or MCH programmes as well. And they are paid, hold your breath, barely 5k to 10k in majority of the cases. 70% of the engineers are jobless, and the lucky ones with a bag full of money opt for MBA programmes spending as much as 8 Lakhs in obscure colleges with zero reputation, and take up employment as sales person / manager drawing just 15k to 20k.

If CAs of yesteryears were just copying the exam questions to set the present ones, the students also have access to those answers, sir. If despite both of them having access to the same resources, the examinees turn out horrendous performances, who is to be blamed?

You should be having a fair amount of idea about the quality of commerce graduates from our universities. First Class marks. Relatively easy exams. Fab syllabus. Quality? That is doubtful. A simple reconciliation statement cannot be prepared by most of them. This is despite having a good set of examinations and a relatively easier evaluation scheme.

Compare that to the average Chartered Accountant. His quality is definitely high. Atleast I would like to believe so.

I can vouch for the examination system as it is now. It is not fool proof or the best. Accepted. So is any examination system. And no descripttive answers can ever be evaluated objectively. Impossible! Try giving an exam to all your articled clerks, and evaluate them, and you'll have your answer. Objectivity is possible only in Objective Type question. But then, CA Exams are about rigour rather than choice.

And for your kind information, any of us can make an application to evaluate the answers. if you have so much to be ashamed about ICAI, why don't you enrol yourself as an examiner? Its a pretty easy task after all. Without taking one bit of step to really know whats happening, making such scathing comments on the system of examination is unwarranted.

And it is disheartening to see your comment that we have surrendered ourselves to IFRS, NACAS. Any true accountannt, with an iota of understanding about globalization, would realize that the entire world should speak one accounting language, to make this globalization meaningful.

My response admittedly has been an angry one. But I just wish, the point is well taken.

Rineesh

Excellent article by the respected author.

I'm just waiting to become a CA. Once I'm done, the first thing I'm going to do is file a RTI application on the ICAI's paper-evaluation techniques. If that doesn't work, a Public Interest Litigation. Something's definitely got to work. Hope CAs and aspiring CAs join me in this when the time comes.

In fact I already have a lawyer who's waiting to help me in teaching ICAI a lesson 

Thats so true there r some CA & some senior CA also who cannot even speak properly where is d standard of institute when such CAs are increasing institutes values. i saw dis in regional conference the senior could not even speak properly

@ Mr. Rineesh Raghavan

If what you are claiming about the ICAI's evaluation system is true, then why is there opaqueness in a candidate getting his original checked answer sheet ? Why should there be a need for us to file an RTI application to get something as basic as that???

@ Mr. Rineesh

As far as the "high" quality of CAs you are talking about is concerned, let me tell you that I personally know a CA who cleared in his 1st attempt without even taking any coaching. And this guy doesn't even know which asset purchased to capitalise and which to write off to the P&L.

For that matter, you must have heard our ex-President of ICAI, Mr. UP Agarwal giving a speech. That moron can't even form a proper logical sentence in simple English? There a THOUSANDS like him roaming around with a CA degree in their hand.

Also, I gave my 2nd attempt at CA final old course in May '10. My performance this time was better than last time, but my marks weren't. To bring things into perspective, let me tell you that in the 2nd group I was confident in clearing all but one paper, that one paper being IDT.

When the results were declared, I got the shock of my life when I saw that IDT was the only paper I actually cleared in. I was expecting marks in the range of 55-60 in MICS but got a meagre 34, that too when I wrote each and every answer as that given in the MODULE which your dearly loved institute itself publishes. On the other hand, I cleared in IDT in which I wrote MOSTLY RUBBISH since I wasn't well prepared for that exam.

Now what could possibly be the reason for that, Mr. Rineesh??? Awaiting your reply.

Hi Gurpeet

I am 100% clueless about this opaqueness. A student has every right to apply for and obtain his papers for review. It is available for even Plus 2 Exams in all state and central boards. For that a student should initiate the action, either through RTI petition or a write at High Court. Sad part, no student does it, except should in public forums or complain in general.

And, as part any examiner's acceptance form, one of the instructions issued by the ICAI is that "value papers properly in line with the suggested key answers, since students will be given access to their answer sheets" !!! No jokes! If ICAI's instruction is anything to go by, then students should be given access. In fact, ICA of England and Wales, CPA institutes and other bodies world over give access to the answer sheets and also the answer schemes in their website (just browse through their websites, and you'll get an idea.

Uttam Prakash Agarwal is not a representative of the entire ICAI. He has been one arrogant prick who evokes a loathing response from students and members alike. Admittedly, even hyperqualified rank holders are garbage in most practical situations. I was comparing an average CA with an average MBBS and or an average Engineer. Fact is that, we the CA Fraternity, are definitely far better in our profession than an doc or an engineer.

As to your specific resuls, MICS in general is being answered "very very vaguely" without any specific points. This vagueness is often taken to be correct from the students' angle, and therefore most of the students are pretty optimistic about their performances. Indirect Taxes, may be u have under estimated your abilities! You are far better than what you thought you were. May be you have answered all critical points. Fact is that, many students judge their performance based on a few questions which are close to their mind. And they carry their opinion about their performance in a paper based on those questions.

To sum it, I totally concurr with your views on the opaqueness, but the solution for it lies in your affirmative action. As to the valuation system, I maintain my point. It may not be faultless, but it is definitely an honest reflection of candidate's performance. You'll get your proof on my second statement, based on the action contained in the first statement. And you need not become a CA to do it, even as a student you can. You need not worry about your results. They wouldn't dare touch it. I am sure of that. All the best.

Rineesh

Rineesh sir,

You first said "I am 100% clueless about this opaqueness." and at the end you said "I totally concur with your views on the opaqueness." What do I go with? I prefer the latter 

About the RTI applications to be made to get our checked papers, I want to know why should there be a need to follow such a time consuming & tedious process to get something which is our basic right as students??? Which student has the time to waste on going to the HC to file a writ or whatever? Its absolutely unpragmatic.

And the ICAI only recently agreed to accept RTI applications, that too on the orders of the Court if I remember correctly. This shows that the ICAI is least interested, or should I say downright against letting students know what their paper-checking has been like.

I find it really hard to believe that there is no meddling around with the exam results before they are declared. And I'll tell you why. Firstly, the patterns in the results like most students getting less marks or failing in only one particular paper are way too common and frequent for one to not question the evaluation process. Also, you will get to hear innumerable incidents similar to mine (failing in MICS and clearing in IDT), in which students get totally unexpected results.

Secondly, one of my professors in a reputed coaching class in Mumbai told us a few years back that one of his old, close friends is today an examiner in the ICAI and he revealed that they apply what they call "riders" while evaluating the papers. In it, at first they check the papers genuinely. Then after seeing that the actual pass % is way too high for the institutes "prestigious" status, they put these "riders" into effect in which they deduct 5-10 marks at random from the desired no. of booklets to get to the pass % which is acceptable to them.

A similar revelation (that's what I prefer to call it) was made to me & my fellow articled assistants by our principal who has himself been an examiner in the past.

I cannot think of any possible reason why these people would lie to us. What would they get out of it?

Hi Gurpeet

Blame it on my English, yaar. Am not that very good, obviously, in communicating a point. I am rather shocked that some coaching class faculty and a known CA has stated that they have riders! That too to fix pass percentage. This is biggest load of bullsh*t that has ever been fed to me. Please, kid. Don't believe a word of that. It isn't true.

My own principal and my senior partner is a Head Examiner for a paper at CA Final. Not just for one or two years, but for almost eight or nine years now. He was a valuer even before that for a longer period. I am with my senior for over decade now. I am 100% sure that there is no such "prestigious" diktats. It is a shelter taken by a few who simply want to spread some sensational stuff.  For your information there has been moderation to the extent of almost 6 marks in IPCC Group One Paper and 3 Marks in IPCC Group II Paper for May 2010 exams. These are not reduced, but added to the students' actual marks.

As to the RTI part, every change takes lot of time to happen. But goodthing is that it is happening. Whether it is after a Court's order or it is on institute's own volition, is irrelevant. Fact is that, you CAN GET YOUR ANSWER SHEETS.

I suggest that you don't think too much about these things while preparing for your exams, most of which are hearsays and lies. Stick to your preparation, and you'll succeed surely.

Rineesh R

Well, preparing for the exams with single-minded dedication is the only thing we can and should do.

I REALLY SURPRISED AFTER HEARING SUCH A NUISANCE STATEMENT ABOUT ICAI. CA IS A NOBLE PROFESSION OF ACCOUNTANCY NOT JUST FOR PASSING JOURNAL ENTRIES. WE JUST CAN NOT OFFER TO COMPARE THIS PROFESSION WITH ENGINEERING OR MEDICINE. AS PER MY OPINION INSTITUTES POLICY ON MAINTAINING THE STANDARD IS AABSOLUTELY A VERY RIGHT DECISION.

i dont understand why ICAI doesnt makes the entrance tough? why the students are stopped when they appear for the finals? there is no guarantee whether the student  will be able to become a CA or not..after reaching the final level suddenly they make u realise that u r worth nothing and that u r left with no option but to keep appearing again and again..comparing me with my friends who opted for courses other than CA makes me feel ashamed of myself bcoz by this time they all are settled with their jobs and are earning well whereas we the CA students are still struggling to make our future....