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PE-2 STUDENTS, PLZ RAISE UR VOICE !!!

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(Guest)

Everyone knows the position of CA Students these days. The course has become so uncertain that it is spoiling the careers of students. But just spare a thought for those PE-II students who are still giving their exams & are being treated with a pass percentage of 1%. The position of PE-II pass-outs is also no different. The Course for people like me (PE-II passout) has become very lengthy in comparison to PCC Students. It seems to be taking an eternity. It seems that PE-II students are the labour class in this course. Even PCC/IPCC students would agree that PE-II students are being treated badly by the Institute. To bring our problems to the notice of the Institute, I would request all students to forward the following letter to the Institute's E-Mail ID - . The Support of PCC and IPCC Students would be highly appreciated. Here's the Letter: Respected Sir/Madam, SUB: Problems regarding Eligibility of PE-II Students to write\attempt CA Final Exams Through this letter, I would like to bring to your notice the hardships faced by PE-II Students. Unlike a PCC Student where First Eligible CA Final Attempt remains unchanged provided such student passes his PCC exam with a maximum of four attempts, A PE-II Student's eligibility to give his/her First CA final attempt keeps extending by 6 months on every failure in PE-II Exams. Unfortunately, I have been one of the targets of the above problem & am facing such consequences. I daily come across PCC students who are younger than me & have taken more attempts than me in PCC/PE-II, but still they are giving their Final exam One year before me. I Kindly request the Board of Studies to be Just and Fair to all the students. The Institute should either reduce the Articleship period for PE-II Students or Amend the eligibility requirement related to completion of articles for attempting CA Final exam For PE-II Students. Present Eligibility Requirement: He /She is Eligible to appear in the Final examination Pending 12 months of articleship. Proposed Eligibility Requirement: --> Either Reduce the Articleship Period of PE-II Students from 3 years to 2.5 years. OR --> Make PE-II Students Eligible to appear in atleast One Group of CA Final Examination pending 18 months of articleship. This matter is very serious and is causing various inequalities amongst CA Students. I kindly request the Board of Studies to look into this matter quickly, be just and fair to all categories of students & bring about necessary changes in the rules regarding CA PE-II pass-outs. Looking Forward to a Positive & Quick Decision from your side and expecting approval of this impartial change in the Course. Best Regards,

 

Yes Debojit,You are Exactly rite and Am with u.All PE2 Students arise and awake.We need more & more support here.God Willing We ll succeed in convincing ICAI.

 

2 Like

Rahul Bansal (Finalist) (35929 Points)
Replied 21 May 2010

DEBOJIT.....GOOD EFFORT

1 Like

Rahul Bansal (Finalist) (35929 Points)
Replied 21 May 2010

FOR STUDENTS WHO WANTS TO CONVERT INTO IPCC:

 

ICAI believes in regular updation of the C.A. course to suit the fast changing environment. As part of this effort the Level Two of the course has been changed and re-christened IPCC. The details of IPCC are:

 

1. Completion of 9 months from date of registration for IPCC.
2. Undergo Information Technology Training (ITT) provided by ICAI itself for 100 Hours.
3. Undergo the Orientation Programme conducted by ICAI for 35 Hours.

  • Eligibility Criteria:A student who has passed the CPT and 12th standard examination may join the Integrated Professional Competence Course
  • Practical Training: After passing group-I of the course, a student must join a practicing Chartered Accountant for practical training (Articleship). Articleship shall be of 3 years duration (36 months).
  • Additionally: In addition to artcileship a student must complete 100 hours of Information Technology Training (ITT) and 35 hours of ‘Orientation Programme’ ITT is to be started after a student registers for IPCC and completed before appearing in Group-I and Group-II of IPCE or Group I / ATE. Orientation Programme is of 4 sessions per day for 35 hours with an ICAI accredited institute.
  • Integrated Professional Competence Examination (IPCE): A student will have to appear for the IPCE after fulfillment of following conditions: PCE is conducted twice in a year, May and November.

Debojit (Student CA Final) (308 Points)
Replied 22 May 2010

Firstly, Thanks to  Siddharth, Mumtaz, Mohan, CA Student & Rahul Bansal for Ur Support......

@ Sanjay: Its correct that PE-II Students have the option to Convert to IPCC but its not at all fair on the part of ICAI to manipulate the results of PE-II Students & reduce their pass percentage to less than 1%. Don't U think PE-II students need to be treated at par with PCC & IPCC Students.

Okay, let me put it this way. Suppose ICAI in the future, decides to Manipulate the results of PCC Students & they decrease their Results tremendously & they give benefits to the New Scheme IPCC Students, Won't u feel bad with such a treatment...??? The Institute will say to u that u also have the option to convert to IPCC but that's not the Solution. Everyone here would agree that PE-II Students are really being treated like slaves literally.

PCC students had the option to start articleship after clearing CPT, we have been through hell while giving our PE-II exams & then we come to articleship which is worse than Hell. Oh Come on, PE-2 Students deserve a Better treatment than that.....



(Guest)
Originally posted by : Debojit

Firstly, Thanks to  Siddharth, Mumtaz, Mohan, CA Student & Rahul Bansal for Ur Support......

@ Sanjay: Its correct that PE-II Students have the option to Convert to IPCC but its not at all fair on the part of ICAI to manipulate the results of PE-II Students & reduce their pass percentage to less than 1%. Don't U think PE-II students need to be treated at par with PCC & IPCC Students.

Okay, let me put it this way. Suppose ICAI in the future, decides to Manipulate the results of PCC Students & they decrease their Results tremendously & they give benefits to the New Scheme IPCC Students, Won't u feel bad with such a treatment...??? The Institute will say to u that u also have the option to convert to IPCC but that's not the Solution. Everyone here would agree that PE-II Students are really being treated like slaves literally.

PCC students had the option to start articleship after clearing CPT, we have been through hell while giving our PE-II exams & then we come to articleship which is worse than Hell. Oh Come on, PE-2 Students deserve a Better treatment than that.....

Manipulation of results that many often feel is a subject of continuous debate, mostly a debate with no conclusion. If manipulations happen, some day it will come under scanner for sure. (With reference to CA Regulations Act, 1988 Sec 39(2) the council may in its discretion revise the marks obtained by all candidates)

Meanwhile, I myself was a PE2 student and not in a mood of opinion or argument towards anyone. As a PE2 past candidate just felt the worries could be sorted by conversion and raised my voice to suggest some measures. I absolutely agree what differences PE2 students are going through in comparison to PCC mainly.

I am not concerned with Pass %'ges, but more regarding present demand by the industry. PCC students complete 18 months training and some even articleship, in the meantime PE2 students pass Intermediate. IPCC is just an examination old, which is of not much difference for PE2 (let's put it like we both are sailing in the same boat). The only line of worry between PE2 and IPCC are added attraction for IPCC (Pass Group 1 to begin articleship and freshly passed under new scheme, ofcourse). PE2 students under old scheme may lack attention from the recruiters for current placements with IPCC. On the other hand, PE2 once passed shall appear Final in Last 12 months of articleship (main reason why many PE2 students still stick to the same boat) compared to IPCC (Last 6 months of including leaves/extensions). PE2 students have option to begin industrial training earlier than IPCC.

So, IPCC or PE2 doesn't count or stands indifferent (untill you compare both to PCC).
You either continue PE2 or take IPCC, but time that you will be wasting in waiting for any call from ICAI is definitely going to cost you that one day you will understand. Perhaps a good call is what i wish too.
Regards!!!..
 



Debojit (Student CA Final) (308 Points)
Replied 22 May 2010

@ Sanjay: Probably u might be right. But I want Justice & I will continue to raise my voice against such One-Sided Rules. Actually, Problem yehi hai ki koi Aage Nahi Aana Chahta. Agar Students me Unity ho To Institute ko Jhukna Hi Padega. Anyways, Sanjay Thanx for ur Views. U r Right in Ur Own Way But Probably our Thinking is Different.....


Gautam (article) (205 Points)
Replied 22 May 2010

Hey i mailed and i got following reply

--------- Forwarded message ----------

From: nrocounseling <nrocounseling @ icai.in>

Date: May 20, 2010 12:10 PM

Subject: FW: Kind attention

To: "V. Sagar, Jt. Secy. (NRO)" <nrodco @ icai.org>



Dear Sir,

Your guidance is sought to enable me to answer this query.

Kind regards,

Neena Vijayvergiya

Student Counselor

 


From: Bosnoida ICAI [mailto:bosnoida @ icai.org

Sent: 20 May 2010 10:53

To: nrocounseling @ icai.in

Subject: Fwd: Kind attention

 

Dear Sir/Madam,



We are forwarding email for necessary action/reply at your end.



With Regards



BoS, ICAI









---------- Forwarded message ----------

From:

Date: Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:27 AM

Subject: Kind attention

To: bosnoida @ icai.org

Cc: president @ icai.orgvicepresident @ icai.org



Respected Sir/Madam,

SUB: Problems regarding Eligibility of PE-II Students to write\attempt CA Final Exams

Through this letter, I would like to bring to your notice the hardships faced by PE-II Students. Unlike a PCC Student where First Eligible CA Final Attempt remains unchanged provided such student passes his PCC exam with a maximum of four attempts, A PE-II Student's eligibility to give his/her First CA final attempt keeps extending by 6 months on every failure in PE-II Exams.  

Unfortunately, I have been one of the targets of the above problem & am facing such consequences. I daily come across PCC students who are younger than me & have taken more attempts than me in PCC/PE-II, but still they are giving their Final exam One year before me.

I Kindly request the Board of Studies to be Just and Fair to all the students. The Institute should either reduce the Articleship period for PE-II Students or Amend the eligibility requirement related to completion of articles for attempting CA Final exam For PE-II Students.

Present Eligibility Requirement: He /She is Eligible to appear in the Final examination Pending 12 months of articleship.

Proposed Eligibility Requirement:

--> Either Reduce the Articleship Period of PE-II Students from 3 years to 2.5 years.

OR

--> Make PE-II Students Eligible to appear in atleast One Group of CA Final Examination pending 18 months of articleship.

This matter is very serious and is causing various inequalities amongst CA Students. I kindly request the Board of Studies to look into this matter quickly, be just and fair to all categories of students & bring about necessary changes in the rules regarding CA PE-II pass-outs.

Looking Forward to a Positive & Quick Decision from your side and expecting approval of this impartial change in the Course.

 

Best Regards,

Gautam

 

 



21st May, 2010

Dear Student,



We are forwarding your e-mail to Examination Department, to reply to your query.

 

With best wishes,



-- 

V. Sagar

Joint Secretary (NRO)

The Institute of Chartered Accountants of India 

ICAI BHAWAN

Plot No. 52 - 54, Vishwas Nagar

Shahdara, Delhi - 110 032  [India]

Tel. No.:  0091-11-39893990

30210654 (D)


Sangam (CA) (1329 Points)
Replied 22 May 2010

 all d best yaar

all pe-2 students hv suffered because of  this experimentation done by our institute.

for us(pee2) only ca duration was d longest.... our articleship started late... & dat too only after passing pee2

may they justify with it... and give some relief to students... atleast to them who r still suffering... 


Debojit (Student CA Final) (308 Points)
Replied 23 May 2010

@ Gautam: Well done Gautam. Even I've Sent the mail & I got the following response:

We are forwarding your e-mail to the Concerned Department to reply to your query.

Koi na Koi to Padhega. Ab kam se kam ye matter Institute ki Nazro me to aayega. I request all of u to send at least one e-mail. Jitne zyada mails jayenge, utna zyada asar hoga....




Shravan (student) (42 Points)
Replied 24 May 2010

HI GUYS ,

I wrote the following e-mail to the BOS Noida 10 days ago......

 

Dear Sir,
 
 
I am a PEII student.
 
Now that the last attempt of PEII is over, and is assumed that PEII no longer continues to exist, I would like to know as to how the students of PEII will be accommodated in any of the continuing schemes of CA. So far the conversion to IPCC was optional.
But now If the PEII stream has been shut down then the ICAI must come out with a specific official announcement regarding the rules for conversion of all PEII students.
If there is any further extension of PEII, the same should also be made clear and be announced at the earliest possible time as we already had our due share of facing suspenses.
 
I acknowledge the various initiatives taken by ICAI so far to accommodate the students of PEII.
 
However, the kind of encouragement and ease of rules that our peers of parallel streams like PCC and IPCC have enjoyed at the begining of their study career in terms of flexible articleship pattern is making us feel insecure. After all we all are in the same domain.
We, the PEII students are not asking you to make it easy for us as we are professional minded too but, our request is that you should consider a scheme of transition such that we all are on one level playing field. 
 
Given the articleship pattern of the PCC students, we are no where closer to them. While we dont get to commence our articleship despite coming from PEI/graduation background(which was considered as an entry level exam then), many of the Pcc students have already completed their articleship tenure after passing CPT(which is the entry level exam now) but, even without passing atleast a paper in PCE. While their time spent is valued ours' is not given any weightage.
 
IPCC was framed correcting the grave mistake of PCC. But, no compensatory relief was given to PEII students till date and we are made to start our articleship only after passing all the six papers even while PCC students were enjoying the un-warranted advantage. Isnt that unfair??
 
Although 6 months relaxation was given to Final students who came through PEII, it only helps a Final student but not a PEII student. The very objective of creatig a level playing field would not be achieved. 
 
We are still hanging on for the utter respect that we have got for this profession and so far when compared to the preceeding old CA Inter and the succeeding PCC/IPCC, we have been made to take the toughest route.
 
Please throw some light in our way. Hoping for some understanding.
 
Thanking you.


THE FOLLOWING WAS THE REPLY...........



Dear Student,
As per the announcement dated 10th Augst, 2009 (link : https://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=4841&c_id=121) last PE-II exam will be held in May, 2010 and thereafter no further extension of PE-II exam will be granted under any circumstances. 
Students after discontinuation of PE-II exam have to convert to IPCC exam. In order to have continuity of their attempt, students so converted were relaxed 9 months study course period as per the announcement dated 5th Feb. 2010 (link: https://www.icai.org/post.html?post_id=5453&c_id=121) but these students have to complete their 100 hours IT training and 35 hours Orientation Programme before appearing for the first time in IPCC exam.
 
Students who have passed one of the group in erstwhile Intemediate (para 2A of schedule B)/ PE-II/PCC will get paper wise exemption (and not group wise exemption) have to appear and pass remaining papers under "Unit Scheme".
 
As per IPCC Regultions, student can start his/ her articled training for 3 years on passing minimum Group I of IPCC exam. (PCE route students articled training is 3 and half years).
 
Hope above will clarify the position.


I personally dont believe that the ICAI manipulates the result.....and any stuff like that.
We had the option to convert to IPCC all the while and it was our judgement to not to go for it. 
Age i guess is the reason for most of the frustration of PEII students. At an age where they are expected to make some livelihood and support their social needs PEII students are still at the PEII level...Not every one will have the cushion to afford this. 

This was not my first e-mail to them either.....But i only learnt to live with it....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Appreciate the initiative.


Gautam (article) (205 Points)
Replied 24 May 2010

@ debojit i request all of u not to do email only to president , vice president ,BOS but also to council members because as per my knowledge the decisions are taken in the council meeting. The details of email-id of them is availble on ICAI website.

Kindly forward  same mail to them.


Nitin Moudgil (~) (694 Points)
Replied 25 May 2010

god bless to all of us (PE2 ) student..... hope we'll have some support from isntitute


Debojit (Student CA Final) (308 Points)
Replied 25 May 2010

In order to Get a Quick Response, U can send this letter to ICAI e-Sahaayaata. I've heard that its quite a Good service. Its available at:  www.icai.org/help


CA Finalist (Article Assitant) (289 Points)
Replied 25 May 2010

Mr. Debojit and Mr. Shravan,

I really appreciate your efforts for the want of justice to PE2 students. Even I am concerned for PE2 students and I am ready to get into any sort of action you may ask me to do. Now that I cant copy paste your mail and resend the same to the Institute, we may come up with new ideas, if any.  

I really hope that some justice would accrue to PE2 students. Its a mental pressure which PE2 students are going to through, including me! 



CA Finalist (Article Assitant) (289 Points)
Replied 26 May 2010

It would be great if more PE2 students would join this forum. Does any one have an idea of what is the count of PE2 students in India?



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