Originally posted by : CA Parul Saxena
	I Just want to say i agreed if a person has knowledge then he is rewareded. But the problem is how to gain knowledge only practical knowledge is demanded but articles can not get in articleship due to CA exploitation or experience in small firm where they can not learn technicality of taxation etc.

 

Hi Parul, first of all nobody forces one to join a small firm. There are a lot of meduim-sized firms apart from the Big 4 where u can get really good exposure as an article. Even if u arent able to do articleship in a good firm, u can still join one after clearing the exams and improve upon ur skills. In ur specific case, u have cleared in Nov 2009. Does it anymore make sense blaming the poor articleship exposure u hv had? I wud hv understood all this if it was being said by a May 2014/Nov2013 passout. U are no way a fresher. If u cudnt gain enough exposure in these five years and build ur own career, you have only yourself to blame for that.

Originally posted by : greatest
	Originally posted by : Rubul And as pointed by greatest that most of the CA's lack communication skills thats why they are jobless or unemployed or underpaid (he has wrote many things but that is my interpretation of his comment in a nutshell, correct me if I am wrong). I disagree with that (not totally). Its enough for a CA if he understand/speak bussiness level communication in case of verbal english and as far as written english is concern, it has to be very good if not excellent.  No. My point was not on verbal ability or Business English. My concern is about "Domain Knowledge" and "Skill set". Engineers:-They are expected to know a lot more than what they learn in their colleges for the MNCs to give them a job. And the demand supply equation in the case of Engineers is much more than that of CAs. They acquire new skills by taking private classes. These skills include all the technical skills required for doing jobs and they may sometimes even include the communication skills. Medicine students:- Same is the case with the medicine students as even they are expected to much more than what they learn at an institute of medicine.(Even an MBBS student) MBA Students:- We underestimate these people assuming. -After clearing an MBA entrance, they do masti for 2 years and companies choose them for front end roles only for their communication skills.(Assumption) Reality:-I would suggest you to personally visit an IIM or an institute like FMS or XLRI.  These institutes have faculty who hold Phd. level degrees in their respective subjects and there will be no stress of getting failed in the exams. And the sole aim will be to gain knowledge and apply them in the case study and other places.  CA Students:-We only study for the examinations. The emphasis is neither on expertise nor on applying skills but on scoring high/ranks in the exam.  You have even said something like Dummy articleship, theoretical knowledge etc. The learning and exposure which we get at the articleship level is very low and you can't get a job in fields like Core Finance which are high paying when compared to a regular job in Transfer Pricing or Taxation. As these Core Finance jobs may need complete different skill sets.. The knowledge you get at articleship level is more clerical and less managerial. The Big 4 articles score better here as they have better exposure, but only if they try to make an effort to optimally utilize the resources around them. My opinion.

Hi Greatest, students of other professional courses such as engineering have to take private classes and supplement their skill-sets bcoz their syllabus isnt really upto date. As far as CA syllabus is concerned, it is much more dynamic, and as soon as any law changes or some new accounting standard is introduced, we have to right away study it. Now coming to the practical application part, it depends upon the kind of firm u are in. If u do articleship from a good firm, you will have to learn and apply many things in your day-to-day work and cant just study for exam purpose. Even otherwise, u dont have to study just for exam purpose. It basically depends upon the attittude of the student. As regards the hard core finance roles that u are referring, I agree that CAs dont get good exposure. But to be honest, a CA's domain is more related to taxation,accounts,etc. although there are a lot of CAs in hard core finance roles too. So, to conclude, CA students do have the opportunity to acquire the required "domain knowledge" and "skill set" if they do their articleship from a good firm and if their basic attitude towards the studies as well as the course and profession is right.

Its not possible to be perfect in every Field.

My Suggestion is just like Engineers have different categories like

mechanical engineers, IT Engineers, Electrical Engineers, computer science, Electronic Engineers,Civil Engineers.

CA Institute should bifurcated the CA Degree course in to different categories. Because a particular person cannot be expert in every filed . It will help not only students But also ca Institute to Train and Educate a particular person in the specific field. Demand of Industry wll be according to specific field CA.

Become after Become qualified and before Qualification students donot know in which specific field they should work or which industry he or she should join.

If there is specification there will be a lot of scope of growing in CA Industry as well as it will help the practising ca to build their career to expertism in a specific field or specific areas.

 

Hi Anil Jaiswal, thanks a lot for ur advice but I am really keen on wasting my time and therefore sticking with CA :)

The return is nothing as compared to the efforts for the course.

CA is evergreen course but it is very difficult and time consuming process to clear so do CA only ur committed and otherwise you will suffer.All the best guys.You never giveup.

If u do CA with the intention to acquire knowledge... I think no other course can beat CA course... It covers all aspects.. Even after clearing final or ipcc u can go for expertise for 1 or 2 topics.. & make ur career as secure as u want. Ultimately it depends on ourselves how v can handle all the difficulties arising to us & get the success.

Ca is not a lottery.. joek bar clear karlo and you will b rewarded.. Its a prifessional course where you need to get continously updated.. I agree now a days most of the CA are not getting paid much but i think one should enter into a good industry even at low package, then start learning, work hard and wait for atleast 5 years..see the jump you will get. I am not a CA yet but i have seen people like this. Dont get dishearted, mere jaise aur bhi CA kar rahe hai, aisi batein sunke hamara bhi mann karega to leave this course.

If everything is going to boil down to paychecks n take - homes, people that is subjective. You will always earn less than some peer and more than some. As far as attempts are concerned that is asked only for the first job. Once u hop no one is concerned abt the attempts. It is what you are matters. To all those who say that the course is not much rewarding monetarywise, (I'm nt trying to degrade any one by any stretch of imagination bt just trying to put forward a point) ask yourself are you really worth that much for your employer to pay you a lac a mth as salary? Its a journey. U will rch there some day. Now when that day comes is in ur hands. For people who blame it on luck I would like to say "Luck is for those who think winning can happen by accident, hard work on on the other hand is for those who know its a choice". Don't crib. Get ur head down and start working. Cheers!!

Originally posted by : Jithin
	Hi Greatest, students of other professional courses such as engineering have to take private classes and supplement their skill-sets bcoz their syllabus isnt really upto date. As far as CA syllabus is concerned, it is much more dynamic, and as soon as any law changes or some new accounting standard is introduced, we have to right away study it. Now coming to the practical application part, it depends upon the kind of firm u are in. If u do articleship from a good firm, you will have to learn and apply many things in your day-to-day work and cant just study for exam purpose. Even otherwise, u dont have to study just for exam purpose. It basically depends upon the attittude of the student. As regards the hard core finance roles that u are referring, I agree that CAs dont get good exposure. But to be honest, a CA's domain is more related to taxation,accounts,etc. although there are a lot of CAs in hard core finance roles too. So, to conclude, CA students do have the opportunity to acquire the required "domain knowledge" and "skill set" if they do their articleship from a good firm and if their basic attitude towards the studies as well as the course and profession is right.

Please refer to my earlier posts, I said the same about Engineering syllabus(on Page 3). Corporates need candidates who can give their best in such environments. And no one can deny the competition even among the ones who have cleared CA. So, if one doesn't learn the skills before going for an interview, the competing candidate possessing such skills will have an edge and may bag the opportunity inspite of having a poor profile. The recruiters not only search for the ones who can cram before the examinations, but also search for the ones who can apply them perfectly. And high paying jobs in corporate even demand some quantitative skills from the candidates. One cannot say something like "there is nothing such in our curriculum" as there are many candidates who are aware of all these requirements even before giving CA Final examinatiosn and use the holidays/free time wisely to gain the skills required.

Trust me, today the candidates from the metros are bracing themselves for the worst and I have never seen such candidates getting low packages.(From other cities/towns as well) So you can't blame ICAI for not notifying about these. It is your job to keep yourself updated.

And Jithin, bro, I completely agree with your views. Being proud of yourself/professional achievements is nothing bad, but underestimating competitiors is the root of the problem.

CA is a very good course. Its a capital investment....I met a person who is around 40 years old and has completed inter then, and having around 20 years of experience in finance, currently working for industry and is drawing a package of 2.5 lakhs per month ... He has not completed CA final still but he hasn't lost hope and people here in the forum should take courage from such ppl that come what may never leave anything undone in life...he says that if he completes can final, companies are ready to offer a crore of salary a year...this is what you should work for...an attempt may be a failure but there should not be a failure to attempt . put your whole hearted effort in exams, plan and take ample time and give it the best shot in exams so that you won't repent in life later when you look back..when you prepare dont let any stones unturned...And dont compare CA with any other course or dont compare your salary with others...if you are drawing low, that means there are lots of things to attain and learn, work towards that, it will automatically pay you and Each persons journey is different...!

CA is a very good course. Its a capital investment....I met a person who is around 40 years old and has completed inter then, and having around 20 years of experience in finance, currently working for industry and is drawing a package of 2.5 lakhs per month ... He has not completed CA final still but he hasn't lost hope and people here in the forum should take courage from such ppl that come what may never leave anything undone in life...he says that if he completes can final, companies are ready to offer a crore of salary a year...this is what you should work for...an attempt may be a failure but there should not be a failure to attempt . put your whole hearted effort in exams, plan and take ample time and give it the best shot in exams so that you won't repent in life later when you look back..when you prepare dont let any stones unturned...And dont compare CA with any other course or dont compare your salary with others...if you are drawing low, that means there are lots of things to attain and learn, work towards that, it will automatically pay you and Each persons journey is different...!

I feel u shud give fixed number of attempts and nothing more than that. 1 for cpt, 2 for ipcc, 3 for finals. If u cnt clear in this time gap, go for other courses. Logical approach

Originally posted by : greatest
	Please refer to my earlier posts, I said the same about Engineering syllabus(on Page 3).

Ok, hv read it now..

Originally posted by : greatest
	Corporates need candidates who can give their best in such environments. And no one can deny the competition even among the ones who have cleared CA. So, if one doesn't learn the skills before going for an interview, the competing candidate possessing such skills will have an edge and may bag the opportunity inspite of having a poor profile. The recruiters not only search for the ones who can cram before the examinations, but also search for the ones who can apply them perfectly. And high paying jobs in corporate even demand some quantitative skills from the candidates. One cannot say something like "there is nothing such in our curriculum" as there are many candidates who are aware of all these requirements even before giving CA Final examinatiosn and use the holidays/free time wisely to gain the skills required. Trust me, today the candidates from the metros are bracing themselves for the worst and I have never seen such candidates getting low packages.(From other cities/towns as well) So you can't blame ICAI for not notifying about these. It is your job to keep yourself updated. And Jithin, bro, I completely agree with your views. Being proud of yourself/professional achievements is nothing bad, but underestimating competitiors is the root of the problem.

Hi bro, totally agree that it is the responsibility of the CA pass-outs to get their skills sharpened and prepare themselves for job interviews. But it is also the responsibility of the Institute to ensure that the CA freshers are job ready. Lack of communication skills, poor articleship exposure,etc. are some of the very basic issues troubling many CA pass-outs. I havent seen any worthwhile measures from ICAI yet on this front. What is happening now is a two-way blame game. Students & CA freshers blame ICAI for whatever that is happening around them and ICAI in turn see things in a detached way making some plain observations like students arent taking their training seriously,etc. Instead of merely stating the obvious facts, I would like to see some concrete action from ICAI's side.  For example, ICAI can stipulate some basic conditions to be fulfilled by firms in order to qualify for the purpose of imparting training to articles. Maybe ICAI can set up a database of firms which they consider capable of giving good enough exposure to the articles and limit articleship to these firms. ICAI can change the current course structure and make it residential(1 year residential course for IPCC+2 years articleship+1 year residential course for Final+1 year compulsory Industrial training). A residential course will definitely help in improving the communication skills of the students as well as help in their overall personality develpoment. It will also ensure that the students get access to uniform,quality teaching. Making industrial training compulsory will give students a first-hand experience of working in an industry and that will help them immensely when they start searching for their first job.    

 

P.S. Hope to see some positive changes in the revision proposed by ICAI in 2016.