Originally posted by : RENGARAJ
	No, it is not the case of fraud or collusion or wilful mis-statement.  And the return is filed well within the time limit i.e relevant date is 25th October 2009. I know it is one year the question arose due to the fact that the Department has issued the SCN on 15th April 2011 covering the material period 1st april 2009 to 31st march 2010.  So it is sure that we can fight the case stating that it is hit by "period of limitation". Thanks Mr CA.Amit

service tax/ excise department is indirect taxes, and their show cause notices are valid for a back upto 5 years, coz every aspect they have tools to prove you wilful mis-statement, however reply the showcause and pray for a personal hearing where u can justify the reason for late submission of the return,

its a simple issue, where the R/O has to reply to board , what he has done when the return is submitted late, why not they investigated in depth for the safeguard of revenue, so he has issued the SCN, 

now one reply and one personal hearing with suitable reason will resolve the matter, however if u want to make it long journey then u can go start from superintendent to supreme court, as we have faced that if we get penalized from R/O level then appeal  upto addl commissioner level does not change status, but CEGAT bench goes partially in favor of assessee.

@ Amit

till the service provider is unregistered, the return is not his liability, but as soon as he get registered, he has to file service tax return to department, even NIL returns he has to submit. 

though as per board circular , department may not issue SCN or impose penalty in case of late filing of NIL returns, but unless you file the NIL return, department will always insist that there is revenue delay, and for that reason only the assesee is hiding. 

its always better to keep indirect taxes personals away from business place by submitting the documents as per rule, as if they get are deemed to visit you, it may be headache.............

Amit, i studied section 70 and rule 7 and agreed that if any person having service tax number then he has to file his NIL service tax return, if he does not got any amount of Service Tax.

Now, Nowhere was mentinoed that if any person took service tax number even then he will be exempt to pay service tax.

See, if suppose i took service tax number and my client require that invoice which is having Service tax number because so that they can claim this service tax under their cenvat credit, if means they will have to pay me service tax and if i am getting service tax from my clients then that received service tax i will have to pay central govt.  is this right?

If yes, then:

1) i have to issue that invoice which is having service tax number and i will mention service tax separately on that invoice.

2) secondly, it means even if i am not crossing limit of Rs. 10 lakh then also i have to collect service tax and same would have to pay central govt. and consequently file service tax return with paid service tax amount.

Now, Please give you views on above case.

Other experts are also welcome on this good issue.

originally  posted by Cma Dinesh                                                                                                                                          if suppose i took service tax number and my client require that invoice which is having Service tax number because so that they can claim this service tax under their cenvat credit, if means they will have to pay me service tax and if i am getting service tax from my clients then that received service tax i will have to pay central govt.  is this right?

My view                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1) if you are collecting tax from clients you have to deposit it to Govt.,whether you have crossed exemption limit or not .

2) If you are collecting and depositing tax you have to file returns for that.

If any assessee has not crossed exemption limit ,he should not collect tax to avoid all this formalities.

suggestions may be given to persons who want to pay tax and claim cenvat credit that in both situations monetary impact will be same .

In one situation they will pay say for exa .Rs. 10000/- and will take credit of10000/- and

In sencond situation they will NOT PAY any amount and will not take any Cenvat credit .

Impact will be same.

@ US SHARMA

Every provider of taxable service whose aggregate value of taxable service in a financial year exceeds Rs. 9 lakhs is required to get registration.

Once assessee have taken registration and have also crossed limit of Rs. 10 lakhs will liable to collect and pay service tax and file return for that.

now say in next 6 months he has not provided any taxable service he will file a NIL RETURN  no doubt in that.

But say any assessee has taken registration without crossing limit of Rs. 9 lakhs (as there is no ban on that) and not provided any taxable service for next 2 years ,he is NOT Required to file return because he has not crossed exemption limit  for the first time .

once he has crossed the limit and collected and deposited tax and filed return for that particular period  and then not provided taxable services for a particular period he will file a NIL return.

@ Amit

if the assesee has no taxable service then he has to surrender the RC, non filing of returns will lead more and more complication as in absence of returns filed, department will file case of concealment, 

however at end of road the assessee will get relief but the path is painful.

to go easy the service tax holder ( not only service tax but every registeration holder of either direct tax or indirect tax) have to file return, even NIL to avoid unpeasent situation. 

Originally posted by : U S Sharma
	if the assesee has no taxable service then he has to surrender the RC, non filing of returns will lead more and more complication as in absence of returns filed, department will file case of concealment,  however at end of road the assessee will get relief but the path is painful. to go easy the service tax holder ( not only service tax but every registeration holder of either direct tax or indirect tax) have to file return, even NIL to avoid unpeasent situation.

 I also agree with Mr. Sharma......

@ US SHARMA

Its not a matter of not having  taxable services but matter is not providing taxable services .Many time it happens when clients get registration with Dept.,but due to circumtances they start to provide taxable services after say 6 or 12 months in that situation no need to surrender the RC.     otherwise agreed with your view.

Assesees has a mindset that if they file return they have to pay tax or bribe, but its not true, either continue the registration with NIL return, or surrender the registration and get set free ............

filing of NIL return is for your own safeguard, as in case of NIL return no officer can visit you in routine, but if you skip the filing return then they have valid reason to visit your place, and handling the indirect tax officers, ................. ask the experience of anybody who have faced them, then decide which is better.

even if you file NIL return late, officer can not impose penalty upon you, but they can ask you the reason for non filing which you have to submit in writing or appear and describe.

avoiding any rule of any department where you are eligible to file and produce data may invite chain of unpleasent situations. 

Filing of Nil return also involves some expenditure which can not be discussed on public forum.it may be shocking for some people that what is expenditure in that but persons who is involve in practice can understand easily what i am trying to say and who is required and  who is not required to file return has been discussed already.

My final view, who is not required to file return sholud not file it due to practicle difficulties and expenditure involve in that .

I stop my discussion on this particular topic and thanks to all for such a helathy discussion.

Originally posted by : CA AMIT CHIMNANI IN PRACTICE
	Filing of Nil return also involves some expenditure which can not be discussed on public forum.it may be shocking for some people that what is expenditure in that but persons who is involve in practice can understand easily what i am trying to say and who is required and  who is not required to file return has been discussed already. - if maintaining the rules involves some expenditure then non maintanance would be................ i repeat once again, .................ask any person regarding the experience who have faced the investigation team of indirect taxes My final view, who is not required to file return sholud not file it due to practicle difficulties and expenditure involve in that . - NON filing is breach of the statement which the assessee made disclaimer in ST-1 at the time of registratin that he will follow all rules and regulations of the act,  I stop my discussion on this particular topic and thanks to all for such a helathy discussion.

Thanks for active participation, we are not making ill arguments, but debate is on positive and negative sides of the department and rules, 

a wrong interpretation by either assessee or department may drag big probs, so with discussions trying to get a wide acceptable interpretation just ........

continue the topic and view, as the forum members need such healthy discussions. 

Originally posted by : CMA. Dinesh S Adhikari, AICWA
	Thanks Experts for you answers but i have on question/doubt here, i.e., one practicing ca told me that if we have taken Service Tax number then we will have to collect Service Tax from clients and pay to Govt. But you are saying that we will not have to pay any service tax even we have take ST number, if we does not cross maximum limit. Please clarify what is correct. Please provide section reference also, if possible.   Regards Dinesh

Small service provider has option to avail exemption of 10L per year, provided

he has not exceeded the threshold limit of 10L in previous year

he is not utilising the benefit of cenvat credit on input services