I fully agree with the few that the time has come for the members in practice to interfer in the matters of the Institute specially those which concerns the students.Simply by saying in speeches that the Institute is doing this & that for the benefit of the students and on the other hand failing the deserving ones can't go hand in hand.I posted this post in www. linkedin.com to share the views of the members at large.While mixed responses were posted there but I'm surprised to read some replies which suggests that the ICAI is doing right as not everyone should be allowed to be a CA.Well if that is what ICAI is thinking then please introduce a CAT like enterance exam & take only a select few for the course much like IIMs.In that case ICAI's view that only a handful of persons should be allowed to be a CA will be fulfilled & those selected will also be freed from toiling for years on to acquire the degree.I would request you all who happens to be in linkedin as well to please see the post under the group Indian Chartered Accountants-ICAI-Largest CA Group.

I fully agree with the few that the time has come for the members in practice to interfer in the matters of the Institute specially those which concerns the students.Simply by saying in speeches that the Institute is doing this & that for the benefit of the students and on the other hand failing the deserving ones can't go hand in hand.I posted this post in www. linkedin.com to share the views of the members at large.While mixed responses were posted there but I'm surprised to read some replies which suggests that the ICAI is doing right as not everyone should be allowed to be a CA.Well if that is what ICAI is thinking then please introduce a CAT like enterance exam & take only a select few for the course much like IIMs.In that case ICAI's view that only a handful of persons should be allowed to be a CA will be fulfilled & those selected will also be freed from toiling for years on to acquire the degree.I would request you all who happens to be in linkedin as well to please see the post under the group Indian Chartered Accountants-ICAI-Largest CA Group.

@ Vikash & Aldrine - U over smart guys are giving these big dialogue because u people studied and got the result. If u have to face the situation what we r facing now then all these ICAI is mother and all will be gone. It is the most unethical institute in India. And wat standard they talking about, do the president of ICAI has any standard. He donot even know how to speech. I don't know wat people outside India Thinks about india when these people represent India in international market. Now a days CA's don't have any value in market. They are working just for 3 lacs package. Other MBA grads are getting 5 times more than a CA. And they are much better than CA. That is y corporate are recruiting MBA grads instead of CA. they also knows wat is the standard of CA. Reason of less demand of CA is ICAI itself.

Now a days they don't even able to maintain the schedule time for exams and result. Last term result for IPCC they declared next day to the schedule date. Thay had to manipulate the things that is why they delayed. Don't know whether they are getting commission from coaching institute or what for the poor results.  Now we student have to do something. We can raise the issue in media.

I request u all if any of u guys knows any media person then kindly raise the issue in media.

@ Mygos:

Beautifully written!!! You have expressed the views of the majority in a coherent maner..

I wish that this adds some sense to all those who go by ICAI without the most expected "Third Eye View".

Well, well, I was just watching the thread getting 'evolved' - I am thankful for the very sagacious posting of "Mygos" who has actually said what all I wanted to say in reply to some of the 'dissenters'.  Dissent should be gracious but when it is not, it is better to ignore such 'outbursts'. One of the earliest  comment was almost a friendly warning about a possible disciplinary action. I certainly know what is the "Lakshmanrekha". I have written more angrily on many issues about ICAI and have spoken my mind candidly at many forums, including in Institute's seminars and meetings. In any case, "truth" is always the best defence avialable to me.

There were a couple of those who could write no better english other than a few expletives.  If they have passed CA examination with this kind of lingusitic skills, I have more reason to feel that ICAI should be ashamed of itself for having such members. I do not want to quarerel with them because there is no point. Sri G Narayanaswamy, seniormost member from Chennai and a former Council member once said that we should never fight with a pig as though we might win the fight, the pig will enjoy more!

ICAI is mother and so one should not blame or criticise is another comment. It is also 'managed' by human beings who contest and win elections the methodology of which all is not better described here. Council members work with agendas. Having said this,.let me also add this: "Not that I respect ICAI less but I respect the sensitivities of the students more as they give their life for this course and who are repeatedly 'disapointed' with forced failures. Let me give you some numbers : The pass percentages in Final (both groups) from exam to exam are as follows: Nov 07 - 28.26%; May 08 - 25%; Nov 08 - 20.27%; June 09 - 13.85%; Nov 09 - 7.86%; and May 10 - 3.46%. The die hard fanatics can see for themselves what kind of a steep decline is this. And today's students are all from mostly CPT stream and who have also passed inter / pcc. So, their quality was fine up to Inter and then have suddenly deteriorated? What nonsense?

Aldrine has said that the talk of the possibility MBAs / CWAs taking CAs positions is a joke. Only his otherwise thinking is. Well, he has always been a good comedy piece. (otherwise suddenly out of the blue he would not suggest that I was nurturing ambitions to become President - I am not naive enough to think that occassional posts in this forum can get me anywhere near council!) He is one who does not see realities happening around him. 

Well, whatever. My concern is for the hardworking students. That's it.

Value addition and Cost reduction are buzz words in Management Accounting.

A classic example is :

The first ranker of CA Final (old) has "achieved" 44 marks in Management Accounting. Still VALUE ADDITION is there because he is on Top.  One student asked Sir, I scored only 38; I wrote - Dear,  don't worry ! You are at par with the first ranker !  (If 6 marks are achieved by him; he could be at par with the 1st Ranker at least in this subject and by any chance; if the 1st Ranker could score only 38; one can imagine the result). Don't forget that approx 60-70% students fail due to aggregate. 

To be  competitive in the world cost reduction is an important factor.  It seems that  there must be some criteria fixed by the Institute to cut the marks specially in Costing !

This is the reason that students fail in Costing. Years ago; I have seen one ICWA student failed in Costing ! 

Please note : The expectation of the Institute is much more than the students expect. See one forum : AFTER POOR RESULTS WHAT TO DO NEXT.

I think fault is from both the sides.

(Taali ek haath se nahi bajati). 

Continued with my previous posting; I ask the following question : 

1. When such poor marks are achieved by the 1st Ranker (may be in any of the subject); then what we should expect from others ?

2. Is Institute really getting good brains according to their own criteria with this way ?

3. Surely there is a big fault in the educational system of CA. The  Board of Studies is not helping students - it is my opinion. 

4. Students are expected to have expert knowledge in all the subjects whereas at the place of the  training;  they have work exposure of two or three subjects only.  

5. Artcileship training entitlement is based on standing of number of years by a CA which is totally irrelevant in small cities as he does not have that much work. The result is poor training and/or dummy articleship. 

6. Training has been made compulsory in the form of CPE hours for members. Whether such compulsory  arrangements have been made for students ? One should ask Board of Studies.

7.  Most of the members who are qualified; have passed CA in more than one attempt. That also almost at margin. Then we can't expect quality from the members.

8.  CPT was introduced in 2006. After 3 years the Institute realized that most of the students are unable to cope up with the auditing as they not matured. 

9. Then it introduced IPCC so that only matured students could join training.

10. From the point No. 8 and 9 it is clear that although the decision of CPT was taken after a number of meetings (there was already Foundation Course which was renamed as  PE I ). A great vision was expected for coming  years but within a short period of time they have to change it again.  When CPT was introduced; it was well known that these students would not be at par with graduates (because examination pattern is not according to the requirement of a CA.  Client does not give options to the CA. Ignoring this;  the Institute put better results to lure the students.

And now; see the results. Since the crowd is there and job market is not so good (according to them).

The essence of the discussion is that Institute wishes  that the course should be joined by those students  who can very well analyse the things ahead. 

With more than 6.50 Lacs students registered with the Institute and passing only 3000 at a time; one can expect the future of CA students. (Ignore how much students will take admission in next 20 years).

Re-calculate the number of years when all the students would qualify assuming that CPT failed student would not continue the course.  

Students be aware !  The Institute will never ashamed of its acts but you...................when you will fail for number of attempts (may be without your faults).

Sir,

I have already cleared First Group.....   This Time I have taken My second group.... My Scores are 51, 43, 46, 54...... In Costing I beat the 1st Rank holder what I can be so clled proud of.... I have still lost my chance of becoming CA by 6 marks..... I verymuch expeced an exemption in MICS.....
I can only feel at my fate......

I shared this post with largest CA group in linkedin with a view to get the views & letting all those associated with CA to know the frustation which ICAI has heaped upon us.I find only a few supporting the observations being made with the majority saying a member shouldn't post anything against ICAI.Some even said ICAI never asked me to pursue the course.If that the case why is there the need of conducting career counselling meets,why ICAI participates in the career fairs?.By alluring students to get enrolled is this the treatment being metted out.I'm sure this 3% result will have very drastic impact in near future in terms of trusting ICAI's free & fair exam system.Many will think probably 100 times before getting enrolled.Such manipulations will only lead to loosing talented students to other courses.

i do not agree

coin has two sides 

i m looking for the better side of it 

if i will b able to b in those 6% then it will b good 

if not instead of blaming icai 

i will try again to be in 6%

and will keep trying forever ........till i make it !

Shiksha Bhavan is committed to drastically reduce attrition in the CA course. It has developed approaches to improve the passing % of CA at all the three levels.  Those interested to know more may send mail for telephonic discussions with our Principal.

shiksha.bhavan @ yahoo.in

I drew an analogy. Never it is my intention to insult any person(s) or the animals, for that matter.