Regarding notice under section 139(9)

Page no : 2

Mukesh Kuriyal (Advocate) (2216 Points)
Replied 22 October 2015

@ Rinkal

First of all thanks to you for providing me information.

As you quoted in your reply that "as per the notice issued to you, it must have been said to fill p&l account schedule and not give p&l account. I.e fill no account case details of p&l schedule to be more precise". 

But the notice says:

Error Code: 31

Error Descriptttion:Tax Payer having incomeunder the heaad "Profits and gains of Business or Profession" but not filed Balance Sheet and profit and loss account.

Probable resolution:The complete details of profit and loss account and Balance sheet should be entered in the return.

 

Before responding to Income tax Department I just want to be completely sure that the things you mentioned is necessary.


Miss Rinkal (Student) (1309 Points)
Replied 22 October 2015

Yes what they have said is correct. Balance sheet and p&l here mean either part a and b OR part c(I.e no account case). That is very much necessary in all case where an assessee is having a proprietary business or a partnership business. I.e whether it be itr 4, itr 4s or itr5, details of turnover is mandatory and not optional or recommendatory It is very much necessary and what I have mentioned is not recommendatory. Views from other CACLUB members is also welcomed so to get your query solved at the earliest.

Mukesh Kuriyal (Advocate) (2216 Points)
Replied 22 October 2015

@ RINKAL

THANKS VERY MUCH I WAS CONFUSED ABOUT THIS.

VERY VERY MUCH THANKS FOR MAKING MY DOUBTS CLEAR.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS GIVEN TO ME.

ALL WERE VERY VALUABLE.

 

THANKS ONCE AGAIN @ RINKAL AND OTHERS ALSO


Mukesh Kuriyal (Advocate) (2216 Points)
Replied 22 October 2015

@ Rinkal.. You are absolutely right that how will the assessing officer know abt the turnover. Today I checked it technically you are right. 1.I downloaded my assessee X M L file which I have uploaded 2.Then I downloaded the schema of ITR -5 given by IT department. 3.Finally I ran the X M L file and validated it, the output was file is correct. No errors were shown. 4.Finally I saw the data, I was surprised by seeing that it was not showing the turnover or gross receipts which I have entered , else everything was been shown I.e partners detail, share profit, interest etc etc. 5.So now I am 100% sure that until and unless they will not get turnover how will they access that whether it's more then 8% or not. Other then that I checked one X M L file of 4S there it was showing everything I mean gross receipts,%ge of profit etc etc.. SO your point is ok... But we have to work according to the income tax act 1961 rather then filling of ITR INSTRUCTIONS... Thankx for bothering you...

Miss Rinkal (Student) (1309 Points)
Replied 22 October 2015

Yes whatever sections are to be followed are / should be as per it act. But the method of showing/disclosing is not available as individual section. It is notified every year and how shoujld it be disclosed is also notified along with in the instructions for filling the itr. Both are notified by cbdt.

Each section and instruction have to be considered before filing the itr. It is as much important as the sections are. Because if the ITR is not filled properly then there are like chances to get a notice.

 



Mukesh Kuriyal (Advocate) (2216 Points)
Replied 22 October 2015

@ Rinkal... Whenever you go to AO he/she talks about act... 

Everyone whoever is knew to this field doesn't like to discuss abt the act... 

Whatever you told already I have also prooved it technically... But just coz of the schema IT department is following everybody should go with it... 

I prefer going to be with act rather then software/schema etc etc bcoz WHAT DOES INCOME TAX ACT 1961 says about 44 AD and having a firm....


Miss Rinkal (Student) (1309 Points)
Replied 23 October 2015

First of all, I would like to state that I m not new to this field. I have been working in this field for past many years. And I m not at all in any manner ignoring the act.  I give suggestions based on not what it dept follows, but rather look up for the case, refer to the act, circular, notifications and then answer accordingly. The suggestion given to you was based on the act only and so it is improper to state that one does not follow the act.Also I have been interacting with AO for couple of times. So I know what AO talks all about.

Secondly even I don't prefer to go by any software or schema but itr is a prescribed form by cbdt and not a software and one has to follow the instructions as given in the itr and for that you can refer section 139(1) of it act. You are not just supposed to fill the itr based on one section of the act but all the sections of it act are to be collectively followed before filling an itr. I do not follow software but I follow the act and act accordingly.

You have filled the form by a software. And because of your software mistake there was a technical error. Had it been you had filled the form by not using the software, you would have come to know the error in your itr. We have filled forms manually as well. So I m completely aware of it.

And don't atleast contradict your point that you don't rely on software. First you said you filed the itr with xxxxx software. Then you said in other post that since it is a firm, software automatically goes to itr5. Then suddenly you said there was a technical error. But for that same post, I would like to state that not only I m technically correct but practically also I am correct in it, there I was not knowing that your system had made a technical fault. I said that because there was a fault keeping in mind the provisions of the it act. And again then you are saying me that "But just coz of the schema IT department is following everybody should go with it... ". The reason that you have stated is baseless. It is not because it dept is following., everybody is following. It is because it is notified and so we are following. If that was the reason that you have said, no assessee would have gone for appeals.

And whatever you said regarding proving about the technical error, it was I who proved that this mistake has occurred but you didn't realise it then. I tried to simplify each time. But you were just stuck up with 44AD section. You were not getting my point then.

You can check that other members were also trying to convey you the same thing but you were not able to get it.

Hope this is in order and absolute to what I mean. Thanks for bothering and taking time to read this post

 


Mukesh Kuriyal (Advocate) (2216 Points)
Replied 23 October 2015

I AM SORRY IF I HAVE HURTED YOU REGARDING AS A NEW IN THIS FIELD..

I DIDNT MEAN IT TO YOU AT ALL I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN THANKS TO YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE RIGHT WAY.

I HAVE NEVER CONTRADICTED MY STATEMENT.

I ALSO TOLD YOU  THAT WHAT YOU TOLD ME IS CORRECT AND I HAVE ALSO PROVED IT TECHNICALLY.I AGGREE TO YOUR POINT.

AS YOU WROTE "Had it been you had filled the form by not using the software, you would have come to know the error in your itr. We have filled forms manually as well."

YUP THIS IS THE MAIN POINT WE HAVE FILED MANUALLY/ONLINE FOR THIS ASSESSSEE IN THE SAME MANNER TILL AY 2014-15 .BUT NEVER  RECEIVED ANY NOTICE U/S/139(9)

WE ALSO HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH AO AND HE SAID YOUR ITR FILING DOESN'T SEEMS TO BE WRONG.

JUST BCOZ OF THAT I ASKED THE QUESTION IN THIS FORUM AND AFTER THAT MANY THINGS CAME TO MY KNOWLEDGE ALSO BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ....

I HAVE NOT CLOSED THIS FILE FROM LAST 72 HRS UNTIL AND UNLESS I M SURE.

 

THANKS A LOT ONCE AGAIN FOR BOTHERING YOU AND ONCE AGAIN I AM SORRY IF I HAD HURTED YOU.
 


Miss Rinkal (Student) (1309 Points)
Replied 23 October 2015

Firstly sorry from my side as it seemed that you were addressing either to me or members who tried to convince you here. And hence I wrote to you. 

Secondly no need to thank me. It was whatever I knew on the topic I shared it to you to resolve the query at the earliest. 

You said that you had been filing returns manually...... What I had meant was we file itr manually., and in that case also I would have filled up the schedule of p&l- no account case. The cases are selected randomly. Maybe for earlier year, it must not have chosen for defect. Some defects are rectified by dept itself. But  for sometime they ask the assessee to rectify the same. But in that case, what i would suggest you to check the PDF of the last year form filled that is available on the website. The p&l -no account case schedule should have been filled for last year also. If not, I would like to say that rectify your return

And last but not the least, it seems you are still not convinced by my answer. No issues.

It is not necessary one should definitely be convinced with what others say. I liked that spirit. I believe the same. I appreciate for that. Unless and until you do not get a perfect solution without any doubts, that's when that solution should be accepted


Miss Rinkal (Student) (1309 Points)
Replied 26 October 2015

@ Mukesh:

Few days back you wanted to know which section of the act says that you need to file p&l and balncesheet. Here is an answer to your question. Refer sec 139(9). For your reference, I have attached the extract of sec 139(9). The part marked in bold is to what I was pointing out at.

139(9) Where the Assessing Officer considers that the return of income furnished by the assessee is defective, he may intimate the defect to the assessee and give him an opportunity to rectify the defect within a period of fifteen days from the date of such intimation or within such further period which, on an application made in this behalf, the Assessing Officer may, in his discretion, allow; and if the defect is not rectified within the said period of fifteen days or, as the case may be, the further period so allowed, then, notwithstanding anything contained in any other provision of this Act, the return shall be treated as an invalid return and the provisions of this Act shall apply as if the assessee had failed to furnish the return :

Provided that where the assessee rectifies the defect after the expiry of the said period of fifteen days or the further period allowed, but before the assessment is made, the Assessing Officer may condone the delay and treat the return as a valid return.

Explanation.—For the purposes of this sub-section, a return of income shall be regarded as defective unless all the following conditions are fulfilled, namely :—

(a) the annexures, statements and columns in the return of income relating to computation of income chargeable under each head of income, computation of gross total income and total income have been duly filled in;

(aa) the tax together with interest, if any, payable in accordance with the provisions of section 140A, has been paid on or before the date of furnishing of the return;]

(b)  the return is accompanied by a statement showing the computation of the tax payable on the basis of the return;

(bb)  the return is accompanied by the report of the audit referred to in section 44AB, or, where the report has been furnished prior to the furnishing of the return, by a copy of such report together with proof of furnishing the report;

(c)  the return is accompanied by proof of—

(i)  the tax, if any, claimed to have been deducted or collected at source and the advance tax and tax on self-assessment, if any, claimed to have been paid :

Provided that where the return is not accompanied by proof of the tax, if any, claimed to have been deducted or collected at source, the return of income shall not be regarded as defective if—

(a) a certificate for tax deducted or collected was not furnished under section 203 or section 206C to the person furnishing his return of income;

(b) such certificate is produced within a period of two years specified under sub-section (14) of section 155;

(ii) the amount of compulsory deposit, if any, claimed to have been made under the Compulsory Deposit Scheme (Income-tax Payers) Act, 1974 (38 of 1974);

(d)  where regular books of account are maintained by the assessee, the return is accompanied by copies of—

 (i) manufacturing account, trading account, profit and loss account or, as the case may be, income and expenditure account or any other similar account and balance sheet;

(ii) in the case of a proprietary business or profession, the personal account of the proprietor; in the case of a firm, association of persons or body of individuals, personal accounts of the partners or members; and in the case of a partner or member of a firm, association of persons or body of individuals, also his personal account in the firm, association of persons or body of individuals;

(e) where the accounts of the assessee have been audited, the return is accompanied by copies of the audited profit and loss account and balance sheet and the auditor's report and, where an audit of cost accounts of the assessee has been conducted, under section 233B of the Companies Act, 1956 (1 of 1956), also the report under that section;

(f) where regular books of account are not maintained by the assessee, the return is accompanied by a statement indicating the amounts of turnover or, as the case may be, gross receipts, gross profit, expenses and net profit of the business or profession and the basis on which such amounts have been computed, and also disclosing the amounts of total sundry debtors, sundry creditors, stock-in-trade and cash balance as at the end of the previous year.

Hope now you might agree and get satisfied with this answer



CA. Kapil Goel, DISA(ICAI) (cakapilgoel.wordpress.com)   (2191 Points)
Replied 02 November 2015

Originally posted by : Miss Rinkal
@ Poornima:

ITR4S is applicable for only individual and huf and not for partnership firms claiming presumptive income from business. For partnership firms, you compulsorily need to fill itr5. Also itr4s is not applicable to individual and huf who are earning exempt income more than 5000/-. In that case they are required to fill itr4 compulsorily.

@ Mukesh Kuriyal:

Have you filled the p&l schedule - no account case. And the balancesheet schedule - no account case. If not filled, fill it up and upload the changes. Also check the notice properly, was this the sole defect., update accordingly

That was a complete answer. Yes you have to fill the P&L schedule - no case account & Balance sheet - no case account.


CA. Kapil Goel, DISA(ICAI) (cakapilgoel.wordpress.com)   (2191 Points)
Replied 02 November 2015

The error you are facing now have come to me also in last year. I have gone through the same procedure which is mentioned by Miss Rinkal and filed return u/s 139(9). 


Mukesh Kuriyal (Advocate) (2216 Points)
Replied 02 November 2015

@ RINKAL More then 15 days are over and I have not filed the return u/s 139(9)... Lets see the notice or whenever the scrutiny comes I am ready to face it....

Parul Agrawal (Article trainee) (34 Points)
Replied 26 February 2016

The same notice has been served to a assesse who has filed ITR-5 . In reply of that notice, we have entered the details of B/S + P&L , then too the notice has again been served. 



Manoj Kumar Mishra (Article Assistant) (304 Points)
Replied 18 May 2016

filed return u/s 44ad declaring income @ 8% of turnover of my patrtnership firm... then why i received notice u/s 139 (9) error code 31 asking for balalnce sheet & profit & loss a/c kindly help wat to do.. when i call on number provided in notice.. the oprators of CPC told me to file the return stating the reason why i do not maintain balance sheet & profit & loss account

kindly help



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