Originally posted by : SiDD_
	^^^ Don't you think power can be abused in monoply?   If CAs are that good, ask government to disband C&AG and take thier place...   If CAs are the only people who have core competencies, I can find you people who are smarter and more efficient than some CA, having other qualifications   You say: Leave the Science to Scientists... nice.. is there are rule that scientists from xxxx institute can only do scientific stuff?

Completly disagree with you Mr.Sidd.

 If you can find people who are smarter and more efficient than CA's, then why they are sitting at back and acquiring just any other qualification. Ask them to join ICAI, giv examinations, go through the training and be a qualified CA.

Its not just enough if you are much more eficient than other, Prove yourself at appropriate platform i.e ICAI.

Dear Rakesh kataria ji......

I can't understand what you meant to say abt "QUALITY WORK NOT DONE BY CA" ???

I sure now you also wish to replace the  "COLLECTOR, POLICE DEP'T, SCIENTIEST, DOCTORS, ETC"

If you think that quality work is not being provided by CA's then better you clear the CA Exam, become CA & provide the quality work (as u demanding) and that is not possible because you not able to clear the CA Exam........That is not within you reach

Originally posted by : SiDD_
	Originally posted by : future ca sometimes monopoly must be there for maintain quality   CA'S ARE ASKED BEST BECAUSE OF THEIR EDUCATION LEVEL Competition brings out the best quality.. As per you monopoly maintains quality? If I am the only seller in the market, why the hell would I care for quality when I know, no matter what, people are going to buy from me only?    The monopoly brought out the best in the shape of satyam..   CAs are asked because majority of the CAs are in practice, hence they can lobby in government to give them privileges, where other institutes like ICWAI, most members are in jobs, who don't care much about the audit things. Even in ICAI, members who are in jobs give a toss to the institute's seminars/ CPE hours...   If ICWAI manages to organise/ upgrade themselves and lobby... soon ICWAI too can have their share of the pie. And, also ICAI has the 10 year advantage of being formed ahead of ICWAI.

all have seen what is the value of MBA now. when there r lots of universities who will just give you MBA degree without even attending the college. what is the quality of that?

hence if one institute holds the rightto attend the exams than more quality can be maintained

i think it is foolish topic to be discussed

From all above discssion it is looks like that most the CA students and current CA’s do not want any competion from other institute. Mostly baised attitude towards own intitute. If governent of India wants to creat one more intitute for management Accountng profession  then I would  be first person to give my support as I would incerase efficieny of ICWAI members due to competition.

Some members brings Satyam issue I would not like to bring discussion about the Satyam and other financial froud in India  conspired  by Indian businssman with the help of CA’s as it is separate topic.  this topic can be seperately discussed in other forum.

I would to bring in notice to all above membes of CACLUBINDIA members that In Britain four Institutes are doing the financial audit work without any problem. All four institutes are created by British Royal Charter. Can this model workable in INDIA, If not then WHY.

One of the member pointed out that I have to pass the CA examination , my dear friend it is not the matter of dicussion.  Passing the CA examinatio is not big task. IF CA institute allowed to give exemption in articleship to  working financial professionals  like MBA’s, CMS’s, CFA’s then see the result, 80% of the passout will be from working professional only.

yaar if more institute come to train accountant,then CA will no longer be the prestigious profession,it will become like MBA.....really a bad idea........

when a student bcome qualified ca...there is great value attached with him ur idea will make him worthless.

and besides its not gonna happen and many...no,not many 99% in ca  will not gonna be agree with u...

Sir ur idea and ur thought i can understand..u r right that England has four accounting bodies..and they are running successfully..but compared with ICAI..they don't reach the standards..u may think that we can give them training..Accounting and auditing is not an ordinary task like creating a software and selling it or approving it..it is linked with the economy..so trained candidates cannot do it without the indepth knowledge and practical experience..we may also think..in most of the CA firms there will be paid assistants who know the every audit how to do..but our constitution gave only right to sign the report by auditor..

Why can't Every parliamentary bill can be signed by politician or any person who knows the Constitution etc...because every particular thing got a respectory authority to sign it..to authorise it..in the same way..Every idividual who knows few medicines name for particular diseases can become a doctor..then why to study Doctor and do specialisations?????

So there should be only one body of CA which make CA's and train them ..for everything we have some rules to be followed..if we compare with other countries..India is maintaining the better Ratio of professionals..

do u think that all those four Institutes are maintaining the quality of Education.??? no..but ICAI does it..

Divergent idea but not the need of the hour and neither will it be implemented. The buck stops at discussions and nothing beyond that.

Well, here are sme more views of mine, friends. The basic idea of mr. kataria is that there should be some more institutes or regulators for controlling the financial audit and related matters in our country. let us first see where we CA are today standing then we'll analize whether this requirement or thought of his is valid..... see mr. kataria, i completely agree with u that we are having a monopoly in the financial and related matters and importantly in the auditing areas (some exceptions like cost audit, etc.) and it is required too as u accept that in 1949, when even constitution was not in force, our CA act got passed by parliament due to the country's urgent needs and accepting the quality of work with reputation attached to this profession. today a wide variety of MBA cources are available, and even in streets u can find small institutes and training centers providing MBA degree, so what is the worth of this kind of degree, i m not against MBA's cauz they also own value in their aspects but the quality of the cource is degraded by such practices...... today also MBA from IIM has a worth in market, or else who cares of it.....

See, due to passage of time and availability of new areas of study especially in commerce field which is very vast and day by day expanding like universe, our CA institute is the only one which has maintained quality of it's services and members of such are always recognised as experts due to their skills and abaility to perform the work. u are compairing india with britain on which matter, having 4 institutes..... buddy if they are having more than 1 institute then it must be their country's need, not in the case of ours..... comparision is possible b/w the persons of same standing, not of a capable individual institute with 4 institutes....... further, u pointed out that we are biased towards our institute, yes we are because this makes us and our institute to be professionally and ethically qualified with providing the best world class services to our country, thats y we r here on the top of the list...... we cannot deny role of the others professionals in ur economy and we gracely respect their profession but we never thought of wether they are required or not and we never questioned on their integrity and services provided.... so never challange our institute and remember, ICAI is the bestestest institute for our this profession and we are competent enough, not requiring any more institute in this profession.....

Hav a nice day !!! 

Who said there is no competition for CA's. 

Competition is their for CA's from CWA's and CS's. Only thing is CA's are not allowing them to enter in to their core area  because of thier statutory power they are enjoying right now. Eventhough CA's getting 3 years training from an audit firm while they do their CA course. CWA's and CS's,  once they get their industrial experiance of the  same period  are also equally cabable . Moreover the syllebus for all these three institutes are almost same only difference is each one is specialising in their core area. 

Things are changing now it is not the qualification alone are going to make the difference. People with quality are going to dominate it. 

I shared this opinion from my experiance. I am a cost accountant with 10 years experiance in accounts. My boss is a CA , CWA an CS who never shows partiality in work and i always get encouragement from him along with CA's in my office.

 Joseph saji.

@ Suresh_Smiter: Exactly, tests to check whether the CA is up-to-date with developments is quite necessary. People who passed CA in 80s, don't even know what SAs are.. of course, they aren't doing good audits.

@ Anubhav: Well... tell you what, I know a couple of CAs who seek help of other people for simple assignments, not because of their busy-ness, but for the lack of knowledge regarding that.

A lot of people who are capable in accounting/ audit/ tax who help these so qualified CAs (these couple of CAs, as mentioned above), tend to lack the patience to do the course, family issues, or language problems with regard to the subjects.

Wonder why people think mere passing the CA exams is a heroic/ near-impossible task? Majority people who fail is due to lack of proper preparation, that's it, not because they are dumb.

Also, just because one knows the 50-60% of the 7 questions asked in an exam, he/ she might not be a master of all the topics..

In some topic here at CCI, someone mentioned that there was some newly qualified CA, he didn't even know what an ITR was... Now don't say there are exceptions, what ICAI-fans are saying is that, CA = quality, there have been no disclaimers to this.

Some people who have so much fetish for the prefix CA, that they want to have it mentioned before their name in marriage (own) invitation cards too, in tickets, licenses, etc. I find it really funny..

For some it is just a qualification.

And if just passing CA exams was enough, ask ICAI to curb articleship.

@ nitin: that's wayyy rude pal, quite a lot of people prefer CWA over CA, as the former is more friendly to people in jobs, they don't have compulsion of articleship for eg.

@ ankit: ICWAI too does train accountants. What are you going to do about this? BTW, when a newly qualified CA fails to bag a job at campus or in other interviews, he starts to consider that the course was worthless.

I once met one guy who was CA at PWC, he was saying he recommends others to do MBA, coz it doesn't pay much after so much hard work in CA..

BTW, we are talking about auditing privileges, not accounting. ICAI doesn't have the monopoly to create accounts professionals..

@ ca/cs student: I am not saying that more institutes should hold CA exams, I am trying to say that more institutes can be allowed to do statutory audits.

@ Sasanka Bhalaki: Not every doctor is equally good, nor every CA is good as another. If they are, why do interviews for job selection, why not pick anyone, coz he/ she passed the CA exam.

And, there is not a single institute which can educate medical students. That's what is being tried to say here.

@ Gandharv Sharma: Sir, how can ICAI ensure that the CA who signs the reports actually go through the audit process.. there are CAs who just sign the reports based on assistants' works.

There are CAs who add up partners who don't do anything, just to take audits more than their ceiling limits. Is this right? What can ICAI do about this?

CAs just have an edge because of the audit part, that's all it is, otherwise whatever services they provide, other professionals can provide it too.. So, don't be so happy ICAI-Fans. Just enjoy the privilege as long as lasts.

Don't take offence anybody, but some of the ICAI-fans are here so carried away, that they are not bothering to understand the gist of the topic.

United Kingdom have following 5 institutes to become qualified Accountant:

·          Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA)

·         Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales (ICAEW)

·         Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS)

·         Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland (ICAI)

·         Association of International Accountants (AIA).

IFRS is issued by the International Accounting Standard Board(ISAB), Board consist of members of the all above 5 institutes, from Indian only Mohan Das Pai was member of the Board. Why we are not producing quality accounting academician who can be recognized internationally in accounting research and Development field.

By writing “We are the best” is not good for the profession; we need to produce peoples who can be internationally known in the accounting research and development.

Still the question is why our accounting professional is behind in development of the new concepts whether in the field of financial accounting or Cost and Management Accounting professional.  We are followers of the concepts developed by the professionals of the all above 5 institutes.

Why our Accounting professional believes in statutory protection and monopoly in the profession.  Our institutes ICAI and ICWAI are more involved in getting the statutory recognitions. Last year government of India proposes to change the name of ICWAI to ICMAI for better prospects of members of ICWAI in international market. ICAI fight with government and stops the process of name change of ICWAI.  The whole episode was disgusting. The attitude shown by ICAI was also not even liked by members of the ICAI. The reason of the ICAI for opposition was such that if you read and if you are CA then you will feel shame.  ICAI is the only recognized body in the Financial Accounting filed so ICAI dared to do the above foolish thing. As government of India do not have any other option to accept the ICAI views. If government has more options government never listen the ICAI non legitimate demand. ICAI dictates the terms as they are the only recognized Financial Accounting body in the India.

So time have comes and Government of India thinks about at least 5 more Accounting Bodies and passed the new resolution in the parliament for the more accounting bodies.

FROM ABOVE ALL, MR.SURESH SMITER'S SUGGESTION IS GOOD.