Dear Krunal,

I completely agree with your views about breach of law, and functional capabilities, its all depends on many things.

I have mentioned that small incident to show the dignity of profession, not the power of profession. so pls don't compare us with ministers son.

When I have mentioned about my functional capability attached to my profile, I was thought of Professional capabilities based on syllabus and pattern of the examination of both the professions. It is alltime truth that experience can make a man better.

Each profession have its own pros and cons... so the CA also have cons.

I'm thankful that most of the CCIns are in favor of my suggestion and thanks for the members who mailed their appreciations to me. But real appreciation is awaited from the side of ICAI.

I request all to not take things otherwise and just comment on my suggestions to ICAI.

sir, just the opposite happened in my case. it was my frst day of audit and i was accompanying a senior in his scooter. he broke the signal; and when the cop tried to catch him; he tried to escape. then he was caught. he tried to give the same excuse. but he was rebuked and was fined double,"tum responsible honey ki padhai karr rahe ho aur aisi harkat karte ho."

Originally posted by :CA. Dashrath Maheshwari
"	Dear Krunal, I completely agree with your views about breach of law, and functional capabilities, its all depends on many things. I have mentioned that small incident to show the dignity of profession, not the power of profession. so pls don't compare us with ministers son. When I have mentioned about my functional capability attached to my profile, I was thought of Professional capabilities based on syllabus and pattern of the examination of both the professions. It is alltime truth that experience can make a man better. Each profession have its own pros and cons... so the CA also have cons. I'm thankful that most of the CCIns are in favor of my suggestion and thanks for the members who mailed their appreciations to me. But real appreciation is awaited from the side of ICAI. I request all to not take things otherwise and just comment on my suggestions to ICAI.	"

 

That is also an incident to show the credibility of our profession

Originally posted by :CA. Dashrath Maheshwari
"	Dear Krunal, I completely agree with your views about breach of law, and functional capabilities, its all depends on many things. I have mentioned that small incident to show the dignity of profession, not the power of profession. so pls don't compare us with ministers son. When I have mentioned about my functional capability attached to my profile, I was thought of Professional capabilities based on syllabus and pattern of the examination of both the professions. It is alltime truth that experience can make a man better. Each profession have its own pros and cons... so the CA also have cons. I'm thankful that most of the CCIns are in favor of my suggestion and thanks for the members who mailed their appreciations to me. But real appreciation is awaited from the side of ICAI. I request all to not take things otherwise and just comment on my suggestions to ICAI.	"

 

Thank You Sir.

I am sorry for taking it the other way. Thats because I have seen that many on CC have a very bad attitude towards other professions. I have seen many posts where there is lot of bias for CAs as if its the end of world and the most superior thing ever. Other professions have been badly insulted on some forums. These things are done by so called matured qualified professionals and students of a professional course. All this made my mind read your thoughts on MBA in a different mannner.

I have understood what you wanted to say and I am glad to know your thoughts.

i quite like ur suggestions. esp decreasing articleship under a practiioner and going to industrial training. 1000 rs mein kitnaa kam karengee

Hi sloni,

I respect your feeling and thanks to support views expessed in my suggestions.

I realise that its not about only money. I have suggested this due to following reasons:

1. We are having great command over subjects but don't have requisite business tacts.

2. We are lacking behind in social networking due to communication problems.

3. Maximum of the CA students get borred due to duplicacy of work every year.

4. Maximum of the CA articles get learnt all professional work in 2 years.

5. Doing practice is not alma matter of CA Profession.

6. In the daily changing scenerio of corporate world, CA student should also learn the practical things to be taken care during his carrier.

7. A CA student having done almost of his articleship is getting 1000 to 3000 per month (I don't think all the firms are paying stipend as per rules)

8. CA Article can grasp vast knowledge about each and every aspect of the profession by getting twin type training (Articleship and IT).

for me too; it is not about money only. i took up CA not that i am a nerd or a geek; but i wanted it to be a strong foundation for my mba from any elite bschool in india or abroad.But all that glitters isn't gold; and CA from icai seems to have lost the shine as well. mainly at the practical firm. and the rule regarding transfer ban is really the edge of what we can all tolerate. i would never want to practise; as i don't have aptitude to listen the client's(CA clients) talks and stuff like that; run here and there at income tax.and the so called "skills" i am gtting right now will allow me to take this field of income tax filing and stuff only when i pass. CAs can do a lot of more things; but we can't get exposure of it during articleship due to limiting factors.and icai's stupid rules has made it worser. i wish we cud experience ; even basic exposure would be pleasing; like of SAP;erp;etc.

:)  I Agree

Yes, its true that in CA articleship getting exposure outside accounting, auditing and taxation is rare even in best firms. So its difficult to get a job outside these areas. Even in these three domains, our exposure isn't upto the mark many times.

Dear Aldrine Sir,

I respect your views and thank to you for bestowing your views here.

Let me ask you and all others about my suggestions one by one:

1> To use front side salutation like Mr./Mrs./Shri/Smt. etc. on website and all publications or the institute. In my opinion, to maintain dignity of the profession this is needed. However, where other salutation is required as per law for the time being in force, that can be used.

2> Use of Salulation "CA"- In my opinion the use of "CA" for various forms and govt. departments is not being notified by the government. It is not even popular in India, how we can expect the same at overseas.

3> Pre-Articleship Training of about 3 Months: To develop the preliminary skills needed during the tanure of articleship/industrial training/internship and also during the self practice/job.

4> Change in articleship period and compulsion of industrial training: However at this point many practicing Chartered Accountants may have a different view but I'm sure that CA Students and Chartered Accountant will give a overwhelming responce about this. I stongly recommend to cut short the period of articleship at least by one year by providing full opportunity of getting industrial training. I bet that maximum students, even don't know that in which industry they can do the industrial training. Even many has a confusion that liast of industries being hosted by the ICAI.

 

I request all the members of caclubindia, CA students and CA members to take part in this hot discussion so that we can conclude and concluded result can be posted to ICAI.

We don't get the power to certify till we clear the exams and articleship both and then enrol for COP. So  from where does the pressure of submission to industry where we would get indu. training come from. We would be under a CA there; who is working there and would be learning from him/her.

Who is thinking of escaping CA by shifting articleship to industry? Has anyone said that  whole articleship should be in industry?If we have to suffer; why nt suffer in a place in whose exposure and suffering has better possibillties of better prospects in future. In articleship under a practioner; how is the probability in that.

Has anyone said that we would be joining the same industry after work in which we would get indu. training

Maheshwari Sir,

I think Industry also needs to be consulted for Industrial Training. One may make it compulsory but a situation can arise wherein Industry is extremely reluctant to take in students.

I have had a similar experience, when I cleared CPT, it was first batch and CA firms were extremely reluctant to take CPT students. Even today, in the big 4, you will find that most of the students (especially CPT) have come there through references.

If IT is made compulsory and Industry ius reluctant, then importance of references would increase. I am being very honest, I have resumes of atleast 25 people who are rankers of CPT as well as PCC but have not managed to get a chance even for an interview in any of the big 4 firms. This discourages students. How these students must be feeling? Inspite of having worked so hard and being in ranks, the big chunk of opportunities went to those who had references.

I feel that 1 year of Industrial Training would be too less. I dont think any great learning could take place in a years time. I feel that the Institute should at the first place remove ban on transfers. Further, it should give the option to do articleship anywhere, be it Industry or CA firms. Those who want to go for practice would join CA firms, those who want to do jobs would go for Industry. Those who feel both experience are necessary or are not sure what they want to do, could start with something first and do the other if the need is so felt.

Pre articleship training is surely necessary. Because current syllabus covers only knowledge part. It just prepares us for those jobs that require knowledge. This has also given us false ego of superiority over MBAs and others. Many of us have failed to realise that the knowledge portion is high in CA course because the role and job of CA demands it. If an MBA's role in Org and society would have ideally required him to be very knowledgable, Im sure all bschools would have surely changed their syllabus and kept it in lines with CA course which gives consideration to knowledge. Without realising this, many of us bluntly comment on MBAs and other professionals and show our superiority of knowledge. There are many professions, jobs that do not demand knowledge, but demand skills for example management, marketing, sales, HR, Organizational Brhaviour, Communications etc.  However, personally, I feel that skills are required. CA course doesnt culminate any skillsets among students. Even a person who is a practising CA, would require skills to get good work, good clients. There is no doubt CAs lack upon skillsets, attitude. Pre-articleship training should be designed in such a way that students come to know the broad picture. Otherwise, even after qualifying their superiority feeling of knowledge would stop them from further learning. A broad mindset and respect for other professions is a must. Such training syllabus as is necessary to develope a good attitude and human values is a must before going to Industry or CA firm for articleship.

For more on this, see - /forum/message_display.asp?group_id=53489

Doctors have a better and fruitful system of internship; they are paid better and they don't have to worry about theoritical classes like if their boss will allow them to attend the classes. That will be managed by the medical college where they are studying. Full fledged internship only happens when they clear mbbs ie after 5 years and in the 6th year. And in this new yug where CAs are supposed to take new challenges; we are are talking like taujii that we should concentrate on practise. All of the CA students aren't internship in just certifiying balancesheet. We also want to become big corporate honchos and present CA system won't enable us to that.

And forget about the system of training. it's bakwash.

 

And just by publising a pic of  a model(boy and girl) wearing neat and trendy casual wear and carrying some books on his/her hand(like students in the west) AT THE BROCHURE OF IPCC AND CPT ; won't improve the image of icai's faulty training system.

kauwe agar maur kaa feathers lagaye; woh maurr nahi bantaa

Aldrine....thats what I am saying. That in CA course, the knowledge component is very high to do well. As you correctly mentioned even doctors and judges need knowledge. However, if you see my post you will find many examples of jobs/professions where success depends upon skills (management is not about knowledge but it is about skills, similar is the case for acting, singing, dancing, designing, cooking etc). If you go acrosss this website and this forum itself, you will come across numerous instances where students and members have to compare themselves to MBAs, then say that MBAs cant do what CAs can and also go ahead in saying that MBAs know nothing in front of CAs, also say all this in very offensive language. Wihtout understanding what both of us said and agreed to i.e. the purposes of all the courses is different, so is the purpose of all jobs. Like you cant go to an engineer when you are not well. This describes that role of Doctors, Engineers, CAs, MBAs etc is different and not comparable. But this common sense is quite uncommon among CA community. Thats why I have strongly agreed to Maheshwari Sir's view about pre-articleship training and suggested that it should be designed in such a way that students understand certain things (like the one we have discussed here) at the same time get out of false ego and false superiority feeling, so that they can further enhance their learning and respect other professions. I have also suggested that such training should be aimed at developing good attitude and human values among students.

You understood my point correctly, i can make this out from the sentence you wrote in bold. You should copy paste your post and give it in reply to every single message that compares CA with other courses and talks about its superiority.

Everything has its own place in the world. So superiority and inferiority claims are void, biased.