Go Ad-Free on CAclubindia with Daily Mobile Updates. Subscribe Now!

ITR 3 f&o p&l

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)

18 July 2018

In ITR 3 form in p&l do we need to provide only net loss figure in p&l ? (here this figure is same as broker statement)

Reply
Follow
Share

16 Replies

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

No.

Full details of turnover, Gross profit/loss, expenses claimed, net loss c/f...... etc ......

Upgrade to CAclubindia Pro. Subscribe Now!

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

where turnover figure will come

do I need to write sum of fav plus unfav difference as Sales ( and purchases figure as it is ) and then claim brokerage

in such case as my actuall loss will differ.

because actual sales figure and turnover figure differ.

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

Go as per statement provided by Broker or agent...

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

Thanks sir

I filed B sheet .

column no 53 says No Account case .This means I cannot write turnover here

so where the turnover figure actually need to mention in ITR 3 .

sir is the formula of turnover calculation (sum of fav plus unfav) is common for both presumptive 6% as well non presumptive (claiming less than 6 % or loss ) ?

Regards ,

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

For loss over F&O transaction, Sr. No. 53 not applicable......

On the contrary, your F&O transactions required to be audited u/s. 44AB.....

Upgrade to CAclubindia Pro. Subscribe Now!

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

sir assessee f &o loss is 10 lac but his total income less than 2.50 lacs (under exemption limit )

however turnover sum of fav plus unfav difference / sales is above 25 lacs

whether tax audit will come ?

whether he has to maintain books of a/c ?

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

Loss from business and profession cannot be set off against income chargeable to tax under the head “Salaries”.

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

there is no salary income

only income from other source which is lesd than 2.5 lacs and loss from f&o as above

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

OK. So, no tax audit u/s. 44AB applicable. But turnover should be properly calculated.

To calculate turnover, sum up the value of your positive and negative trades. Say if you have a positive F&O trade of Rs 40,000 and negative trade of Rs 36,000, your income is Rs 4,000 but your turnover shall be Rs 76,000. i.e.

The total of positive and negative or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover.
Premium received on sale of options is to be included in turnover.
In respect of any reverse trades entered, the difference thereon shall also form part of the turnover.

Here, it makes no difference, whether the difference is positive or negative. All the differences, whether positive or negative are aggregated and the turnover is calculated.

For computation of turnover of futures, the total of positive and negative or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover.

Similar will be the case pertaining to speculation income the total of positive and negative or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover.

Expenses

Expenses such as postage, conveyance and telephone, incurred for carrying on the business can be claimed as business expenses.

1 Like

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

Dear sir,

Thank you so much for your expert views.

I just want to know something more:

a) should i show total buy value (premium paid) under PURCHASES of goods and total premium received under SALES of goods value under SALES and claim f&o related expenses (brokerage ,stt etc ) below and thus show loss figure.

or (b) should I show ' Loss from Option market 'in Any other income column as negative figure and write brokerage stt separately (loss come exactly as broker statement)

c) If (b) is ok then instead of showing brokerage stt etc separately can i show overall loss which is exactly as per broker statement.and show only one single figure of loss

(I am not claiming any extra expense except as per broker statement. )

when I do not present like (a) the system is showing 'NO' to mainenance of books of account . Although i gave balance sheet

what is the reason for that

1) sale figure missing

2 ) assessee under exemption limit.

Whether maintenenace of books of account in excel is sufficient as tax audit not required (turnover above 50 lacs but less than 1 cr.

Best Regards,

vikas

As I not claiming any other expenses the net loss figure matches exactly as per broker records.

Upgrade to CAclubindia Pro. Subscribe Now!

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

53	In a case where regular books of account of business or profession are not maintained, furnish the following information for previous year 2017-18 in respect of business or profession
	(i)	For assessee carrying on Business
	a	Gross receipts	53(i)a	50000
	b	Gross profit	53(i)b	-5000
	c	Expenses	53(i)c	500
	d	Net profit	53(i)d	-5500
	(ii)	For assessee carrying on Profession
	a	Gross receipts	53(ii)a
	b	Gross profit	53(ii)b
	c	Expenses	53(ii)c
	d	Net profit	53(ii)d	0
		Total (53(i)d + 53(ii)d)	53	-5500

Gross receipt will be turn over.

Loss before any expenses in 53(i)b

Net loss will be carried forward.....

But there is a bug in excel sheet ...... not able to generate X M L file for such loss.....

Better go with Java utility.

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 18 July 2018

Dear sir,

Because the turnover exceeds 25 lacs so condition of maintaing regular account applicable so I show B/S p&l capital A/c in ITR 3 and have I have bank statements and f&o trade related statements. So column no 53 skipped. Have I done correct ? In such situation in ITR3 whether actual sales, puchase of option premium and f&o trade expense figure will come ?

or we can show just loss from option trading as negative income + f&o related expense

Regards,.

Dhirajlal Rambhia (SEO Sai Gr. Hosp.) (178099 Points)
Replied 19 July 2018

Have I done correct ?

Yes.... Better option.

In such situation in ITR3 whether actual sales, puchase of option premium and f&o trade expense figure will come ?

or we can show just loss from option trading as negative income + f&o related expense

Should be as suggested in option b) earlier.. i.e

"or (b) should I show ' Loss from Option market 'in Any other income column as negative figure and write brokerage stt separately (loss come exactly as broker statement)"

Anonymous (Business) (240 Points)
Replied 19 July 2018

Thanku so much sir for your time.

sir as no sales purchase figure (derivative option trading) required and column no 53 also not required (I mentioned gross loss as negative income and f&o exp as per broker statement ) then how IT deptt will get idea of my turnover / gross receipts.

And why computax automatically choose NO under Audit information regarding regular books of account required to be maintained.

Is this because turnover / gross receipts missing or assessee income wise under exemption limits .

Kind regards,

Kind Regards