INDUSTRIAL TRAINING

CA Dhiraj Ramchandani (CA, M. com) (10823 Points)
Replied 06 January 2010

Sir, first of all the point of discussion is really great here... Thanx for issuing this topic...

Now, first reason, according to me the first reason is that the difference in training... Many students, may be because of change in nature of training, can ask for industrial training....

There are few other valid, possible reasons in my view, but let others also comment and start this...

CA Mani (Credit Analyst) (2814 Points)
Replied 06 January 2010

Ya sir I agree with you but there are many reasons for switching like

If any student who have suffered during articleship in small CA firm so he thinks only industrial training can solve this problem

Secondly after final exam many have remaining training of almost 8- 12 month so they think why should not do any change in training etc and they go with it without getting analysis where they are going and one idiom is there in hindi which says "door ke dhol suhawne"

Like dheeraj said there will be change in nature of training also

And one more thing after completing their training students think company will absorb them so they joined it

If any student get oppurttunity in big 4 so they try also after leaving their presnt firm

I have die hard investment banking interest so i joined industrial training ,so i think if anyone has particular reason than he can join it after proper thinking and analysing his career profile in that company

Thanks

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 06 January 2010

Dear All,

The issues raised are very peculiar in the profession of Chartered Accountancy. In my articles in caclubindia - "Swot Analysis of CA Profession" and "One Shot Success in CA;" I have indirectly raised these points.

Some students commented on me - Sir, you got good training during your articleship that is why you are so .....".

Many times we learn from our mistakes. The only condition is that mistakes should not be repeated. Whenver these are noticed; immediate remedial action should be taken.

I wish to share my own experience.

During my articleship; I was misguided by my peers. I appeared before Price Waterhouse, Calcutta for articled training but someone "misguided"me that three years will pass only in vouching. I admit that I committed the mistake. Mr. T R Daga; a very senior chartered accountant; who was chief accountant at "Graphite India Ltd" referred my candidature to "Price Waterhouse" but I followed the "advice" of non-CA students and did not listen the words of Mr. Daga.

At that time I was also not aware of the difference between B.Com. Examinations and CA Qualification.

Later on; I joined one "middle class" CA firm.There were some senior articled clerks; but they all used to go for audits and used to come at office only on Saturday to report. I had to sit in the office for certain months without any guidance (Can you imagine what was the reason that I have to sit in the office ?).

Nobody guided me about practical auditing. Although when I joined CA; Calcutta was one of the best place for practical training.

Ultimately; I left Calcutta which I think is one of the "brave decision" of mine in the age of 20 without any fear what my father would think over it.

However; it is also true that whatever I achieved in my life; is due to the difficulties "enjoyed" in that period.

At that time I understood that best guide for a CA student is none other than "SELF."

I have expressed my "personal experience" so that students will prepare themselves to solve (not "to face") the problems. (This is one of the reason that we read "history").

CAs are known as Problem Solving Persons. When we can solve so many problems of our clients then why not ours ?

For the betterment of the CA community as a whole; all the problems (experience ?)should be freely discussed.

Let we discuss through this forum for this great purpose.

Dear Maninder, I invite you to share some of your experience as Industrial Trainee.

If you "can" share your practical experience as an Industrial Trainee; it might be useful for all. Because variety of jobs are there in an investment(merchant) banking. How are you learning - describe the different areas. What you expect after your training etc...

CA Mani (Credit Analyst) (2814 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

I wanna share something regarding industrial training that the more bigger will be the company the more will be decentralisation of work there, So we get a specific job profile and we have to stick on it unless in middle size CA Firm where we do all things and keep ourself updated in all topics but everything has its own pros and cons

sonia jhun jhun wala (ca final student) (43 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

sir,

can you plz provide any approved centre/(s) for industrial training in Bhubaneshwar.plz rply.

CA Ayush Agarwal (Kolkata-Pune-Mumbai) (27186 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

Ya, I Too Agree With Sir...........& With manindar Too....

This is a Very Good Discussion I Seem..........

From Me, The Main Problems Arises When A Article Who Want to Learn somethings

But What He Didn't Get Articleship From A Very Reputed Firm..............

& Ultimately He Hav to Practice in a small Firm.........

Some Time, That Type of Firm Hav no That much of Work,small size firm.......... to Learn...

and a article spoiled his articleshi period..........and also while getting job............

therefore he wanna to join industrial training......................that in expectation of that to learn some................

that CV sudherega.........

Perfect Patil (article assistant) (24 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

ya i agree with sir and maninder

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

After passing X, a student can register himself for CA to appear in CPT. So he undergoes XI and XII with CPT Registration.

Right now there is no "organized system" that the student can develop his understanding about CA profession during his "CPT Period".

CPT seems to be introduced to catch young students who tend to go for MBA only after graduation.

After introduction of CPT; there is a huge loss to MBA institutes except those who are renowned one.

Even IIPM is searching for students ! Believe me ! Their own "planning" failed in recession !!

It is wonderful to note that most of the students go for articleship with practising CA despite having target for job !

Whereas the most suitable place for them is Industrial Training if they have already selected to go for job.

What would you say ?????

CA. Dashrath Maheshwari (TaXpert) (15103 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

Many doesn't know about who can impart Industrial Training:
as per Regulations 51,72 -
a. Financial / Commercial / Industrial undertakings with total assets of not less than Rs.50 lakhs and having in its employment one or more Chartered Accountants who has been a member for a continuous period of three years.

> An Associate for a continuous period of three years can train ONE Industrial Trainee.
> A fellow member can train TWO Industrial Trainees.

b. Organisation intending to impart industrial training should obtain prior approval of the Institute by submitting the copy of annual Accounts alongwith such request.

c. Industrial training can be received only under the member of the Institute.

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CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

In my opinion; even an organisation having total assets of Rs.5 crores (more than 10 times from the prescribed level) is not in a position to hire the services of qualified CA.

Even if found so; we can imagine the "Training Standards" of such organisation.

Hence; the problem would be one and same.

So without analysing about Industrial Training; the step taken towards it may prove harmful than a training with a practising chartered accountant.

In some industrial organisation; I have seen "stereo type work allocation."

Recently a qualified CA Mr. Pritesh has left Reliance and started his own practice.

What were the reasons that he left such a company ?

Can you presume the same situation after undergoing Industrial Training ??

CA Harish Suwalka (Chartered Accountant ( Bhilwara )) (4125 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

Industrial training always attracts students. may be because they want change in type of training...

i feel that if some one is decided to serve the industry after completing ca than ind.Training is an obvious choice because the working-platform of ca firm may not help him in fighting with real-time industrial environment.

but when we approach companies...they doesn't show much interest in employing ca-articles because there is so much formalities attached to it...and they expect from student to comply with them....

Some of the many expected advantages to be gained by a student following a program of Industrial Training are:

Systematic introduction to the ways of industry and developing talent and attitudes, so that he / she can enjoy fully, a career in Accountancy while recognizing his / her responsibilities as a professional Accountant of the future.

Understanding real life situations in industrial organizations and their related environments and accelerating the learning process of how his / her knowledge could be used in a realistic way.

Enabling to execute more informed judgment and accepting responsibility for it.

Recognizing that financial and economic limitations play a more important role in all Industrial activities.

to enrich his/ her knowledge with the legal compliance required by companies in industry

Understanding the formal and informal relationships in an industrial organization so as to promote favorable human relations and teamwork.

Appreciating that Accounting and compliance is an expanding field and that learning has no limitations

Understanding that the problems encountered in the industry rarely have unique solutions and gaining experience to select the optimal solution from the many alternatives available.

Developing a sense of responsibility towards your goals .

Developing personality & communication skills for future roles as Managers in Accounts & Finance.

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 07 January 2010

The purpose of discussion is to compare the articleship with practising CA and Industry.

In my opinion; the Goal should be decided first - what you want in your life? Only Money ? Good Job ? Identity ? Each one will say - Well....I think.. all. (All is Well).

Here I quote Late Rahul Roy, the youngest past president of ICAI who has just expired one month back - "I am not supposed to answer the querries about Income-Tax. Even I do not know about personal taxation. But if you ask about Auditing; I will answer all the questions."

There are many firms in Calcutta which are engaged in Auditing only. Today it is impossible to understand that a CA (specially student) is not supposed to answer querries relating to Income Tax! This is one of the "most typical" paper to qualify CA.

To decide in which area to go is really a challenging job in CA Profession. Utmost care is required during articleship to build a solid career.

One of the student asked - which is better area for career. I answered :

There is no comparison between practice and job. If you have your own unique ideas to implement; practice, practice and practice. If you wish to "serve" someone; join service.

I say, still students think to go for service by joining Industrial Training ? If the answer is yes, then it is their choice.

In my opinion, join such industrial training so that in future you can set up your own organisation !

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 17 January 2010

Some students have raised the question whether the industrial training is different or it is same as articleship with practising CA.

The answer is :

No, it also depends upon the size of the industrial organisation.

If it is too large; you may be allotted departmentalization type of work.

In industrial training; nobody is there to guide you practically speaking.

All you have to learn from the "system" prevalent in the organisation.

But, in medium sized organisation you may find different types of work during the training.

Actually no format is there because commercial activities are very large in number.

If the organisation is engaged in service sector; you will have an indepth knowledge about a particular area of service in which is organisation is engaged.

In very big organisation; it might also be possible that you have very limited interaction with other people due to overload work.

Before joining any industrial training you should focus on the following :

Size of the unit in terms of :

1. Capital

2. Turnover,

3. Employees,

4. Profitability,

5. Professional management,

6. No. of years standing in the field

7. Expansion plans in hand

8. Group companies

9. Dividend history

10. Present Auditors

11. Foreign Branches

12. Technical Collaboration

13. Present Market condition of the
product; if any.

etc. etc..

(all these terms you learn very well during your studies; now apply them for yourself : for betterment of training).

Also ensure the standing of your proposed employer in the company.

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(Guest)

I ve currently worked in Core Accounting Services work including finalisation of accounts ,a little internal audit services field...etc.I ve appetite for accounts ,audit..i want 2 work in an industry ,so wanna do industrial training.pls guide which field would be appropriate??