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Dummy articled clerks

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)

09 July 2013

IT IS HIGH TIME TO DO INVESTIGATION OF QUALIFIED CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS WHO HAD ALLOWED ARTICLED CLERKS AS DUMMY.
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SO SIMPLE TO CURB SUCH PRACTICES :
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WHEN A FRESH CA APPROACHES FOR A JOB;
AND HE IS NOT HAVING "ANY" KNOWLEDGE
ABOUT ACCOUNTING, AUDIT, TAX OR ELSE;
HIS CASE MAY BE REPORTED.
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IN HIS/HER RESUME; COMPULSORILY THE FIRM'S NAME TO BE TAKEN WITH TELEPHONE NUMBER AND ADDRESS.

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Many students smartly says : What is the use of training? Just pass exams now and then find job to get the training.
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Thousands of such applications are applied/published for job. An immediate investigation is needed who don't find ANY job due to absence/lack of their PRACTICAL TRAINING.

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IT IS ALSO SUGGESTED TO "CANCEL" THEIR TRAINING CERTIFICATE.
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UNTIL HARD ACTIONS ARE TAKEN; STUDENTS WILL TREAT TRAINING AS A JOKE IN NEAR FUTURE AND PUBLIC WILL SUPPORT THEIR VIEWS.
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(RIGHT NOW THE SITUATION IS NOT GOOD).
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PS :

This is one of the reasons that fresh CAs don't find the job and blaming the ICAI.

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Suggestions are likely to be sent to ICAI after review of other members.

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73 Replies

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Now waiting for the response how many CA students support my view....

and before commenting don't forget to read the first line again which I have conveyed.

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13 Like

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Anji Reddy (Student) (65 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Hello sir,

I am Agreed with your point of view . Unless such type of action is not there ,in the coming future Quality of CA Become a Value less Degree .

When I Joined In CA ,so many People Leave a comment infront of me as "Once he Done with CA, he will earn the money per month as we are unable to earn per year ."

but Now, same people Talking like" Most of the people who completed Their CA they didn't get the Job as a B.tech Student "

ICAI should take some Intiative on this Point to Retain The Quality of Great Chartered Accountnt Course and Future

for Mukul:

It is not to make the people future in Trouble but to give the better future to so many people who have great talent.

Thank You Very Much sir @ Surendra.

4 Like

Ayyswariya RG (Knowledge Seeker) (3711 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Agreed sir. People who do dummy articles are making fool out of themselves.

There is a wrong perception that by doing dummy articles, there is lot of time available for studies. This is absolute humbug.

Practical training is a must for exams as well as for the future professional life.

Students should change their mindset on this dummy articles issue and think on it. There will be no one to guide after becoming a qualified as we are supposed to do challenging jobs after becoming a CA. Quality of work and technical knowledge is obtained only through articleship.

CA firms should also not allow entertain students to register in their firm as dummy.

Consciousness among students should also be brought in order to make them realise the importance of training.

1 Like

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Originally posted by : Mukul
	1. Why to ruin anyone's life in the first place.?? 2. If they did dummy articleship then those will sure find difficult to get job if they cannot answer simple questions asked in the interview. 3. But i dont think investigating such matters and then reporting to ICAI about the findings will be of any use. Its a fruitless exercise. 4. If we cannot help anyone then atleast we should not spoil their life.

1. Ruining of life !....Then tell me who is responsible? Until some actions are taken; nothing will improve. These members and students have "ruined" the image of the profession. Whether action should not be taken against them?

If one does crime and judgment provides a sentence for it; what is your opinion thereon?

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2. Such cases "KNOWING NOTHING BUT CERTIFICATES IN HANDS" should be reported or not?

Imagine yourself as prospective employer ( Managing Director of a Company)- what would you think about such chartered accountant who know nothing?

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3. Anything's use can be known only when it is actually used. Imagine if such powers of Investigation are given to you....and now say what is your opinion about your performance if you are paid for that job Rs.1,00,000 per month.

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4. Students themselves are spoiling their career by not accepting practical trainings. Agreed that all are not providing "quality" training; still one should try to understand the pros and cons of his boss's practice.

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Imagine yourself as qualified CA. Now asking : What do you think about such practices? Would you "like" to allow Dummy Articled Clerks in your firm?

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Due to such members and students promoting DUMMY ARTICLESHIP;

cut throat competition has been created in the market and

thus SPOILING THE IMAGE of the profession.

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CA Lokesh Pokharna (CA (Ahmedabad Bhilwara Chittorgarh)) (4128 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Yes its a Biggest reason of non availibility of jobs to CA freshers.my many known friends or friends of friends did dummy articleship * passed exams then now they are taking training by serving free with CA firms or who didnt joined firms finding difficulty in getting jobs.

And i wants to add more here..

1- paper pattern of ICAI should be changed .. it should give equal weight to practical knowledge also which only can be gained during articleship. paper should contain questions whose answers can be given if one has did proper traning... for e.g ask qus relating to LFAR , tax audfit report in auditing, 115 jb in tax papers , ask vat return , st return related in idt paper...

2- one more advice is that after passing ca exams there should be one year training voluntarily for qualified freshers... so if one had a dummy articlehip then this one year can give him practical training.. it can be either in corporates or ca firms.(and minimum stipend should be there) & if one did proper training he can get job easily in market so wont need training...

1 Like

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(Guest)

100% agree. Even i am in the last month of my articleship. Have learned a lot but not up to the level of a CA.

1 Like

Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48564 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

1)A BIG misconception is that if we opt for dummy articles there is a lot of time so that we can pass and there is a possibility to get a rank also

What actually goes here is

1)majority people waste their time

2)some coaching centres offeres coaching for ca final 8 months times is morning 6.30 AM to 2PM and ot will prolong also---i know it because these type of coaching centres are there in Andhra pradesh and running against to icai rules..

As per icai rules no coaching class should be conducted after 9.30 AM and before 6.00PM

3)If he waste times...he dont get CA degree and dont have practical training----Finally dont know what to do and how to earn a rupee after completing 4 years of prestigous course..

Neither degree nor practical exposure---it will be very serious case--and danger position.

4)if luckily he qualifies CA final course...consequences face by dummy

(a)first of all he dont to where to go for job

(Ex: one of my relative who is dummy---after qualifying CA all levels in first attempt asked me what to do?--by that time i have completed just 6 months of articleship..

he dont even know qualifed CA can work in CA firm after qualifying CA as an employee

(b) when he gone for a corporate he offered 10,000 per month only--

(c)the main disadvantage is he dont have any practical exposure....it was very really a bad time to learn how to file a return of income after qualifying CA from an articlestudent who just completed 6 months of articleship

(d)we will face some bad moments from many times from relatives and otheres

....in family meetings..and functions any relative may come and ask us advise on financial matter by that time we should be in a position to help them with our advise--if you failed to help your relative they may have an opinion on you what is the use of studying CA..and underestaming you...

Thanks & regards

Ganesh babu k

CHOOSING DUMMY ARTICLESHIP IS OPTING TO SELF SUICIDE OF OUR LIFE

1 Like

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Originally posted by : Himanshu Goyal
	100% agree. Even i am in the last month of my articleship. Have learned a lot but not up to the level of a CA.

If you have learned the basics of Accountancy, Auditing, Tax, ISCA, Cost and Management; it is sufficient to find job or be successful in practice......

( assuming you can do self study for latest amendments with some analytical power and not fully dependent on tuition).

No CA can claim he is 100% correct.....that is why only 50% is the required to qualify as a CA.

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One suggestion : Regular refer the icai.org to know about the latest developments in the profession.

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Wish you all the best.

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1 Like

Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48564 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

What makes CA student unique ...

1)CA student gets respect from the date of joining---there is some what respect about CA course in society

2)PASS FOR 50%

3)Every one will ask how you studying a course in which if you fail one subject you have to write all subjects again

4)Gets a great respect from top officials of companies MD and other top management and an effective articlestudent will be in a position to enjoy that beatiful moment..

5)Feeling great to work on sundays and weekends where so may wastes their time .

6)And the continuing professional education

7)CA means "Create value and Accept challenges"

8)with the pressure of work in articleship focus on studies will increase and we will get some oppurtunies from our clients inteself to do job after qualifying CA..

our focus towards passing cafinal will be multiplied and a burning desire to pass CA course will be created

9)even doctor will not take patient illness but CA takes pressure of client adn get his work done..in this article assitanat was a great asset to CA firm..and an effective articlestudent can increase the worth of firm

10)Finally...Proud to be an articlestudent...

Proud to be a CA student...

Three years of enjoyful articleship work could lead you to 30 years of bliss. But if you Plan for three years

of bliss, you will end with 30 years of self- defeating slog.

Thanks & regards

Ganesh babu k

1 Like

Sachin Rajput (account exe) (593 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

100% Agree sir... Thats y ca quality decrease and quantitiy increase

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CA Mansi Kotecha (Keep Smiling !!) (6890 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

Sir ji I agree..

If it was not so important then why Insti would have kept it..that too for 3 long years ??

1 Like

Nimish Jain (Internal Auditor/CA final student) (240 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

I dont think trying to find out such matters and reporting them to the ICAI is gonna be of any benefit to us. People who do not understand the need of articleship are gonna suffer late anyway.

We dont have to make an effort to pointlessly catch other practising CA's or their articles. That is absolutely worthless.

If you are good at something you will get through. These articled clerks even after passing finals do not get a better job than any of the others because of their lack of knowledge. We dont get a job of an engineer tha we wil be trained for 6 months first.

We are supposed to join a job with knowlede and a specific skill set which the dummy students dont possess and hence we are gonna be way ahead of them anyway.

I dont think it is our job to find out who's getting dummies and the CA's involved in it. Any such act for me is an act of unnecessary effort to create hinderances for others.

If i do such a thing, it'll tell me something bad about my own nature and empathy towards others. So, with all due respect, i strongly do not agree to you sir.

1 Like

Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48564 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

1)As per ca articleship rules CA student is required to submit work dairy after completing every 12 months of articleship

(i)neither student sends to icai voluntarily nor icai will send any notices to students

2)if icai want to catch dummies just go to coaching centres who conduct classes like regular coaching

(i)in vijayawada city in andhrapradesh there are some institutes who is runnning with a timings from 9.30 AM TO 2.PM AND THEY WILL MAKE THIS TIMING TO 9.30 AM TO 8.00 AM ALSO SOME TIMES AT THE END OF TRAINING

DURATION THEY TAKE TO COMPLETE CA FINAL COACHING IS 8 MONTHS COMPLETE REGULAR COACHING

My question is i want to know which CA can give leave for 8 months to go for ca final coaching...and there after again leave for exam prepartion..who can give leave like that except dummies....

1)if icai is able to collect those students registration numbers we can say all these students are dummies and an appropriate action can be taken against CA

2)but icai will not do such investigations...and still it says steps was taken to control dummies..i dont know what steps they are taking

3)dummies percentage was reduced when ipcc was there and the same was increased now after direct entry scheme

If icai really want to trace dummies it can ask to produce

1)bank pass book--proof that student received stipend as per ca rules

2)work diary of work done till today

From all students who are in articleship

Can icai do that..now..if it is ready to do so many will come out

1 Like

Nimish Jain (Internal Auditor/CA final student) (240 Points)
Replied 09 July 2013

I dont think it is our duty. If it is such a huge issue i think ICAI should and can take appropriate actions against it. Protesting for something that hardly affects us is not my cup of tea.

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