Good one Aishwarya. I agree with you.

But, this time, the marks we got, was very much less than our expectation. Many of the students were sure to get 60+ marks was just failed by getting 20 to 35 marks. When a student expect something more than 60, then he definitely had written good. But the results shown the opposite outcome.

What we want to say that, we want some transparancy in the evaluation of answersheet. ICAI should give marks as per the answers given by candidate and not "arrange" the marks to make the pre-planned passing percentage.

What UPA had done in one yr, just recall,

1) Illogical articleship transfer rules,

2) Compulsory questions (makes no sense, why? no other institute had done it, ICSI ICWAI etc.)

3) Decrease in results, 20% to 13% and now 7.86%. Does showing less results makes the profession more qualitative?? Just showing to the world that our exams are so hard, that only few could get it cleared.

4) lot of selfish and irritating internal decisions in the council, he is the most unpopular president ever for both students and council.

But we have to forgot all above. Going against the system, will just result in nothing other than our own loss...

I request all the readers to just work hard this time... clearing exams is most important for us...

best wishes for may exam.

regards,

karan.

Karan, I totally agree with the points you made. The system is certainly going weird these days in matters like ‘compulsory questions’. I do think that in the present world of ‘specialists’ who needs a ‘jack of all trades’?

Regarding a student saying s/he will get 60+ this time but flunked with less than 30, I think the student has to reevaluate his methods first before crying foul. I am not saying the student is not knowledgeable. We need to be more professional in presenting the paper, after all we are writing a professional exam. Our entire hard work of three plus years is going to be judged in the 3 hours we put in the paper which will be evaluated in less than 10 minutes.

How many of us here really care or talk about our paper presentation in the exam? I see so many notes & study tips being shared but rarely any paper-presentation ideas. We might have good command over the subject but we should let the examiner know about that, in order for him to shower us with marks.

Manipulation?... Suppose if they are going to choose some papers in random and reduce marks, let us present our papers in such a way that they don’t have the heart to do it. Let our papers be outstanding. That is the most we can do…

 ALL CAs  have not come from heaven not to make any mistake.There ARE compulsions from their side too.

PEOPLE TALK OF ETHICS IN CA PROFESSION  AND ALL THOSE GYAN!!!!! CLASSIC EXAMPLE IS::::PLEASE ALL OF YOU TOUCH YOUR HEARTS AND LET ME KNOW WHETHER ATLEAST ONE INCOME TAX RETURN IS FILED IN A TRUE MANNER!!!EVERYTHINKG IS COOKED UP!!!!SO PLEASE DONT TEACH LESSONS ON WE NOT BEING SINCERE IN STUDIES  AND STUFF.THE ENTIRE BLAME IS NOT ON US.

WE TOO HAVE DONE BEST.OTHER WISE WHY WOULD WE RAISE OUR VOICE?

But the most surprising fact is how is that even when we have done the problem correctlyHOW they can give less marks,  because in costing especially 3 problems i.e.ABC COSTING PROBLEM, NETWORK ANALYSIS, AND SIMULATION WAS THE SAME PROBLEMS IN SARAVANA PRASATH COSTING BOOK.WHEN WE HAVE WRITTEN THE SAME ANSWERS HOW IS THAT THEY HAVE AWARDED SO LESS MARKS?

THAT SHOWS SOME VESTED INTEREST IS WORKING.ITS PATHETIC TO KNOW THAT THE INSTITUTE ALWAYS COUNTS ON ETHICS BUT WHERE ARE THE ETHICS?

I THINK, WHEN WE WRITE OUR EXAMS AND COME OUT WE WOULD KNOW BETTER AS TO HOW WE HAVE DONE IN OUR EXAMS.WHEN WE R SO CONFIDENT OF GETTING 60+, HOW ON EARTH HAVE WE GOT 20S AND 30S ? THIS SHOWS SOMETHING IS GOING WRONG.THERS NO ONE TO QUESTION THE INSTITUTE.

MORE SO I THINK THIS IS THE TIME WE NEED TO ASK OUR ANSWER SHEETS.FINE, LET THEM NOT REVALUE OUR PAPERS, BUT AS STUDENTS WE HAVE ALL THE RIGHT TO ASK OUR ANSWERS PAPERS.BECAUSE WE SHOULD KNOW WHERE WE ARE GOING WRONG.

AND ITS A FACT THAT  MR.UPA IS AT LOGGERHEADS WITH THE STUDENTS, SO MUCH OF ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST HIM, AND THE ALLEGATIONS ARE MADE BY EMINENT PEOPLE.THERE IS NO SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE!!

WE HAVE TO TAKE STEPS AS PER RTI ACT....WE HAVE ALL THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHERE OUR PAPERS ARE?HOW WE HAVE FARED!!

Aishwarya, What ever you have posted may be right to some extent and that its the students fault in not clearing. Let me ask you some important and pertinent questions :-

1) A pass % of more than 28% some 3 to 4 terms back suddenly dropping to below 10% in Nove 09 is bound to raise many an eyebrows. How can this happen suddenly. This means what? All students appearing for the Finals ( especially Gr 2) in the last 3 to 4 terms are nuts.

2) Do not compare other exams with ours. The system and evaluation processes are entriely different anmd beyond comaprison.

3) Out of 30000 students of Gr 2 in Nov 09 only 3099 have passed the group. Do you believe that there is no one candidate out of the balance 27000 who could have passed?

4) I had earlier posted that one examiner who I know very closely sent thru Jet Airways some 650 answer books and the tabulation sheets on Sunday 10th Jan 2010 inthe late afternoon. The last date for submission of all answer sheets to the Institute was the 12th. He also told me that the normal time to tabulate and bring out the reuslts was 12 to 14 days after submission of such papers and that the results are likely to be declared on 27th/ 28th Jan. The Instiutute however posted that reuslts shall be declared on the 17th and the date of psoting was 8th Jan days before the examiners had even submitted the valued answer scriptts. This raises serious doubts on the entire process. Dont let me believe that the Institute suddenly developed the infrasturcture to tabulate the marks of thousands of students in just less than 6 days.

4) I do agree that students need to be more focussed. But the system should be transparent enough. Take my example --  I was sure to get exemption in MICS --  the paper went off astoundlingly well for me but I was shocked to see my marks at 43. This just cannot happen. I have already challnegd the same and have asked for my answer papers under RTI --- lets see. If they do not give my answer papers, i shall also take legal recourse.

5) All I am saying is valuations should be fair and commenusrate with what one has written. At CA final level no one is a fool that he cannot at least judge what he has written. The CA Exams have become like a lottery and this is exaclty what I am resisting. Next attempt also, you study hard and do well inthe examinations but get poor marks and fail ---  what happens? Lots of things have changed inthe last one year - then why the Institute is still sticking on to the age old system of revaluation of papers only arithmetically. Why a complete rechecking process not being introduced. Why is the Institute so hesitant in sharing papers even under RTI. Is it hiding something? The answers to these questions shall clear doubts formn aspiring stiudents and as Karan said, thsi Hon President of ours is the worst ever the Inst has got and the earlier he goes, the better is it for all.

6) I shall surely go the last recourse regarding my MICS paper and I shall share with all of you thru thsi forum any outcome in the days to come.

Aishwarya, What ever you have posted may be right to some extent and that its the students fault in not clearing. Let me ask you some important and pertinent questions :-

1) A pass % of more than 28% some 3 to 4 terms back suddenly dropping to below 10% in Nove 09 is bound to raise many an eyebrows. How can this happen suddenly. This means what? All students appearing for the Finals ( especially Gr 2) in the last 3 to 4 terms are nuts.

2) Do not compare other exams with ours. The system and evaluation processes are entriely different anmd beyond comaprison.

3) Out of 30000 students of Gr 2 in Nov 09 only 3099 have passed the group. Do you believe that there is no one candidate out of the balance 27000 who could have passed?

4) I had earlier posted that one examiner who I know very closely sent thru Jet Airways some 650 answer books and the tabulation sheets on Sunday 10th Jan 2010 inthe late afternoon. The last date for submission of all answer sheets to the Institute was the 12th. He also told me that the normal time to tabulate and bring out the reuslts was 12 to 14 days after submission of such papers and that the results are likely to be declared on 27th/ 28th Jan. The Instiutute however posted that reuslts shall be declared on the 17th and the date of psoting was 8th Jan days before the examiners had even submitted the valued answer scriptts. This raises serious doubts on the entire process. Dont let me believe that the Institute suddenly developed the infrasturcture to tabulate the marks of thousands of students in just less than 6 days.

4) I do agree that students need to be more focussed. But the system should be transparent enough. Take my example --  I was sure to get exemption in MICS --  the paper went off astoundlingly well for me but I was shocked to see my marks at 43. This just cannot happen. I have already challnegd the same and have asked for my answer papers under RTI --- lets see. If they do not give my answer papers, i shall also take legal recourse.

5) All I am saying is valuations should be fair and commenusrate with what one has written. At CA final level no one is a fool that he cannot at least judge what he has written. The CA Exams have become like a lottery and this is exaclty what I am resisting. Next attempt also, you study hard and do well inthe examinations but get poor marks and fail ---  what happens? Lots of things have changed inthe last one year - then why the Institute is still sticking on to the age old system of revaluation of papers only arithmetically. Why a complete rechecking process not being introduced. Why is the Institute so hesitant in sharing papers even under RTI. Is it hiding something? The answers to these questions shall clear doubts formn aspiring stiudents and as Karan said, thsi Hon President of ours is the worst ever the Inst has got and the earlier he goes, the better is it for all.

6) I shall surely go the last recourse regarding my MICS paper and I shall share with all of you thru thsi forum any outcome in the days to come.

Why People having an attitude like this? Why all people are blaming President or ICAI ? Even i got less marks than what i thought....but i never scolded ny one....people are getting marks na and they are clearing na...? yes then hw cant be in your cases? Its just ur attitude....People doin hard work sincerly will never get failed...u knw i did very hard work but unable to produce nicely than what i read in xms....but examiner understood that i hav the data but couldnt able to write and for ex in Costin 43 i got....

See my marks...and Dam sure i m confident that i will get MAFA 70 marks....lik tat way i wrote but there wil be definately some reasons which is lik bad presentation etc.... So its mistake by me and not from anyone....Please realise it and dont scold someone for your mistakes since students are passing in exams and also getting ranks....if no one is so then i wil agree tat there is some intention....Pls come out of others exmas pattern....CA doesnt come mere studies it Requires

1.Hard work and not smart work

2.Sacrifice  - Like wen every went to a movie ur readin in room....wen ppl r celebratin deepavali

3.Presentation skills (Eng need not be perfect at all)

4.Luck plays 1%

U may think y tis guy s tellin lik tat and u may think ppl wit enjoyment also passed....but after seeing this particular discussion i hav to tell....

Why People having an attitude like this? Why all people are blaming President or ICAI ? Even i got less marks than what i thought....but i never scolded ny one....people are getting marks na and they are clearing na...? yes then hw cant be in your cases? Its just ur attitude....People doin hard work sincerly will never get failed...u knw i did very hard work but unable to produce nicely than what i read in xms....but examiner understood that i hav the data but couldnt able to write and for ex in Costin 43 i got....

See my marks...and Dam sure i m confident that i will get MAFA 70 marks....lik tat way i wrote but there wil be definately some reasons which is lik bad presentation etc.... So its mistake by me and not from anyone....Please realise it and dont scold someone for your mistakes since students are passing in exams and also getting ranks....if no one is so then i wil agree tat there is some intention....Pls come out of others exmas pattern....CA doesnt come mere studies it Requires

1.Hard work and not smart work

2.Sacrifice  - Like wen every went to a movie ur readin in room....wen ppl r celebratin deepavali

3.Presentation skills (Eng need not be perfect at all)

4.Luck plays 1%

U may think y tis guy s tellin lik tat and u may think ppl wit enjoyment also passed....but after seeing this particular discussion i hav to tell....

Final Examination Results

I never said the Institute is transparent & right in ALL its ways. The point I am trying to make is ‘let us raise our standards before raising our voice’.

In my replies I have done no comparison of our icai EXAMS with other COURSES. My context was entirely different.

ARKA, I understand that you have done your MICS paper exceptionally well. But please do not judge everyone by your standards. Supposing if the Institute agrees to provide us the copy of our answer sheets, in which we failed, how many amongst us will dare to post those papers here in the forum and ask ‘Haven’t I done well? Why did I fail?’… (Again, I am not defending the Institute here.)  

I am also amongst the one who strongly feel that the Institute should come forward & provide us the copy of our answer sheets.

At CA final level, if a person can ‘completely’ judge what he has written, then our Institute would have 100% results everytime.  Yes, as you said, no one is a fool here.  

Talking about the president,  how many here can bet that ‘if the president changes I shall SURELY clear the exams?’

There is something called normal curve in statistics. If you consider an examinee population of over 35000 sufficiently large, then there is no sampling error due to the size. In that case, the November 09 exam results  % and pattern must bear a normal resemblence with the past few years' exams, if the underlying conditions did not change substantially.

Statistically, it is hard to defend 8% results of the last exam compared to over 22 % a few years ago. Either the papers set this once were tough (which was hardly the case), or the correction standards became stringent (which again should not and cannot be the case with so many examiners spread over geographically over various zones) or, more likely, the results were artificially moderated. Someone here does not now there is something called "moderation process" before the exam results are declared. You have to be totally logically-challenged or an already qualified insenstive CA or a die-hard believer in the system that does keeps shifting and varying the length of  the finishing line or the standards of passing in a whimsical manner.

Let us not talk about the drafting skills or presentation skills dropping substantially over years - they have not.  In CA exams, especially in Costing , MICS,  the correct usage of english may not matter much. (See the standard of Bosu Babu's English in the post above and see his marks in MICS , Indirect Taxes to confirm this observation). Let us not even suggest that the students 2 years ago were more intelligent than this lot. Over a long period, the syllabus may change, but if someone passed CA exam 5 years back under the old syllabus with 10% results, then to be fair and consistent, this year, next year, 10 years down the line, we must present the students with the same level of difficulty or obstacles  (neither more, nor less) while setting the paper, evaluating the papers and declaring the results, because the population characteristics do not change substanitally except over a very long time. We are taught how important the consistency is there for credibility.

As a student, my pet lines were : "In life's exam when I learnt all the answers, they changed the question paper". Now, my pet peeve is : " In life's exam, when I learnt all the answers and tackled all the question papers with no options, they still failed me by changing and drastically reducing the passing percentage."

Hard not to dispair for students who did not clear or who failed due to a huge gap between their fair expectations and actual marks. Hard for them to go back to studies and believe that they will not be the victim of arbiterary thinking next time.There is a change in guard at the intitute. My appeal to the new Council Members : Tread softly and carefully for you tread on some very tender young hearts. If you dont stem the rot, noone will hold you responsible. Except your OWN childeren. When they take the exam. Few years down the line. For their sake..

Hey one more thing to those who were tellin that there was a pass percen of 30n odd....

Here i want to share something secret came to knw by me from one of the CA who is also workin in ICAI boards....

Here it goes,

When T.N.Manoharan sir was the president the result was very high in the history of ICAI..if u hav doubts check it out....

its becoz, every one knws tat 2005-2008 is the boom period in India in all sectors and money floted in India lik nythng....More cos regd and more man power requirements and more CAs demanded by many companies....But due to less number those corporates told Chidhambaram sir (tat time he is the Fm..remember?) he asked T.N.Manoharan about this and asked to release more, otherwise he has given a warning said tat i will bring a notification saying CWA practicin persons also can do audit of a company. Hence there is no other option to him to release even students who were not up to mark...

I totally agree all of you

But what is wrong in getting answer papers.

probably if they provide those papers, even people like me might shut our mouths.

as per RTI ACT LETS GET OUR PAPERS........

THAT WILL PROVE WHATS HAPPENNING...

Bosu Babu.... You say this because you were not a victim of the 'transparency'

MNRAO... papers should be demanded by ALL the CA students together. THAT will essentially shake the whole sh*t up

DEAR FRIENDS,

CA FINAL RESULTS ARE TOTALLY MANIPULATED CONSIDERING FOLLOWING

WHY SUCH MORE THAN 10% DEVIATION IN RESULT WHETHER THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE STUDENTS SHRINKED IN LAST TWO EXAMS DUE TO RECESSION OR LACK OF KNOWLEGEABLE STUDENTS OR OTHER UNDISCLOSED FACTOR.

WHY UPA HAD MADE SUCH UNDESIREABLE REMARKS FOR REDUCING THE PERCENTAGE OF PASS  WHICH CLEARLY VINDICATE THE HANDS OF THE ICAI AND UPA IN MANIPULATION OF RESULT.

WHY NOT THE ICAI COME FORWARD AND ASK THE EXAMINEES TO TAKE THEIR ANSWER SHEETS.

WHY EVEN A QUALITY STUDENT WILL NOT SURE ABOUT CLEARING THE EXAM DUE TO SUCH MANIPULATED PRACTICE BY ICAI.

IN THE LIGHT OF ABOVE I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE RESULTS OF ICAI IS TOTALLY MANIPULATED NOT ONLY LAST TWO EXAMS BUT EVERY TIME.

THANKS