If ICWAI is not justified in demanding ICMA which is a world wide name used for cost accountant across the board, then definitely there is no justifcation to allow "Chartered" in  ICAI name. Worldwide the name is used as Certified Public Accountants etc. Actually, the Govt has created this situation by continuusly ignoring ICWAI. I think ICWAI, ICAI and ICSi are the three professional bodies equally competent in their respective areas, then why discrimantion in favour of one particular body. The Govt. should clearly demark their areas i.e accouting& audit for CAs, Cost Audit for CWAs, Secretarial & Corporate matters for CS. Then why overlapping by CAs in ICWAi & CS domain.  In any case, the harmony between these three institutes should be maintained and noone should be allowed to become big brother.

Thanks

Mr. Chandra nath .

Then ICWAI has alot calibre and expertise as een by its syllabus, better it go like IIM unders HRD Mininsry with what ever name like, no body will oppose.

Most of CA are in Industry , so they must have skill and knowledge ,hence thay have been accepted till date. 

Even in my company ,fresh  CS/CWA are given less salary and designation than CA. Then what CWA can do , do they will fight with company , claim that CWA are more expert.

Or you want to rempve misconception? Then   i think a century is not engough for such changes.

Physio Therapists went to court to get the title "Doctor" and they succeeded. Surprisingly, even an MBBS cannot claim himself as "Doctor" in true sense as they are only physicians/medical practitioners. One should be accorded with this title only when he attains the highlest level of expertise in his profession. Health Science is not an exception.

Dear Raj

Please understand we(ICWAI) were demanding our name to be changed to ICMAI, which gives the real sense to our profession. Cost Accountants are known as Cost & Management Accountants internationally. Most of the institutes abroad have changed their name to ICMAI. A very bad politics is being played & only because of that our name has been changed to ICAI (Institute of Cost Accountants). We all,  members should raise our voice to change our name to ICMAI. We should really praise our President sir & council members for putting their efforts. We are & will remain with them.

Even in my company ,fresh  CS/CWA are given less salary and designation than CA. Then what CWA can do , do they will fight with company , claim that CWA are more expert.

Or you want to rempve misconception? Then   i think a century is not engough for such changes.

Why do you take your company as a benchmark. I am the member of both the institute and our company ( is an IT bellwether) hires CA or ICWA in equal position with equal salary. Right from the inception I have been watching you arguing irrationally. Do you think we are  bunch of fool who cannot understand anything? Why are you trying to undermine the ICWAI? For what? It is for their demand to change their name to ICMAI (Institute of Cost & Management Accountant)? Or they are demanding to drop Chartered from ICAI or both?

 If CA institute puts a roadblocks on ICWAI to change its name then what is the harm from the end of ICWAI asking for to drop the word Chartered from ICAI. Why ICAI protested  when CS intitute wanted to change their name to Chartered Sceretaries? GOI puts the logic that in soverign country like India Chartered cannot be implemented. Why the same logic cannot be applied to ICAI?

I know once again you will come back with illogical argument.

If you cannot digest to get the word Chartered dropped from ICAI then stay away from the internal proceedings of ICWAI.

Dear all,

The discuss is  going  very intesting particularly Mr. Raj Kumar Gupta is arguing very intelligently but of course only in favour of ICAI.  

The name change is a current problem.  But it is not the only problem.

Few question are relevent in this regard :-

1.  Whether only  one  company is required in any one field, like insurance (in old time LIC) or  should        there  be healthy competition against monopoly in the any field by many company under a Statutory       Authority?

    My answer is there should be healthy competition by many companies.

2. Whether all the power, wealth, working areas and rights, should be given by father and mother to           only one son when there are 3 sons or divided the working areas,  responsibilities and wealth                 among all three equally and let them compete among themself?    

    My answer is equal chance should be given to all sons and let them compete and prove their                   competance.

3  Whether only one profession is supreme i.e. CA where other two equal competant professions CS        and CWA  are inferior and should be eliminated or suffer perpetually?

     My answer is no one is inferior at least  all of three and  no one is atmost superior among all ot                three.

There may be many questions .  But for the time being let us focus on the above three questions.

1.  In old time there was LIC sole insurance provider and no  authority required.  But all of us know the position today.  Competion and only healthy competition is demand of the today.   So the competition should in the Accounting, costing, auditing, secretarial practices.  

Power to only one institue is same as power to only one political party to  run the Govt. pertually with no option to public to choose among various parties.

The same logic is required in the Accounting, costing, auditing, secretarial practices fields.  

2.  Preference to only one child and negligent to other is not a right manner and behaviour.  So it is              necessary to divided among them equally.

     The same logic is applicable to Ministry of Corporate Affairs.  It only prefers ICAI and ignore ICWAI          and ICSI.

3.  The main purpose of any profession is the responsibility to society and  other fellow profession.              Every profession should respect other professions which are separately established.  So rude and        monopolistic behaviour of any profession is against the ethics and ultimately results in damage to        society and in long run to itself.  Every person in society from peon to GM is very essential to the               functioning of the society.

From the above points it can be seen that :-

1.   There should be healthy competition in all areas except soverign areas of Govt.

2.    Equal importance to all professions by everyone even Govt.

3.    Mutual respect by all professions.

According to me :-

There is a urgent need to establishment a Separate Independent Regulatory Authority to Regulate and control accounting, auditing, costing, costing auditing, secretarial practice, secretarial audit and setting standards on all these areas in the tune of like authorities as RBI in Banking, IRDA in Insurance sector, SEBI In capital market.  

The proposed Regulatory Authority should be given the power to grant the license for practice as well in service areas in employment.   As present this power is given  to all three institutes.  

At present a member of one institute can practice in only one area which is granted by his Institute.  But there many persons who are members of  more than one institutes and even of all three institute.  So in the case of Establishment of Independent Regulatory Authority,  Practicing as well servicing should be given on the bases of  multi qualification  so that the  person with membership of  both or all three can practice in the  more or all areas. 

There is also urgent need  of  MRA / MOU between the all three institutes so that if a member is interested and capable, he can become a member of other institutes  either directly on the basis of  MRA or passing some papers under MOU scheme. 

MRA / MOU between all three Institutes is as follows:-

There should  be core subjects papers in the area in which the particular profession   has specialization. The other Institutes member should pass those  papers to become the member of that Institute.

In case of ICAI

 1. Financial Accounting and Corporate Accounting

 2. Direct Tax Laws

 3. Indirect Tax Laws

 4. Accounting Standards, Standards on Audit etc.

In case of ICSI -

 1. Company Secretarial Practice

 2. Corporate and allied Laws

 3. International Trade Organization and GATT etc.

 4. Secretarial Standards

In case of ICWAI

 1. Cost Accounting- Methods and Techniques

 2. Operational management and control

 3. Management Accounting- Performance Evaluation and Decision Making

 4. Cost Accounting Standards and Management Accounting Guidelines

I know that it is very panic to accept the above scheme.  But think for the whole professional community and the interest of the nation.

All of you are requested to comment my suggestion.

Thanks.

Raj, You have not yet answer all my points. Your answer come from your ego. But as a double qualified I want equal opportunity. If CA are good way they are fearing competition form ICWA if they change their name to ICMA. If you are good take the challange. Why hiding under support under govt. regulation. CA are getting more acceptence due to govt regulatory support. IF a CA or CS qualify CWA will not become less actractive. It is only regulatory support. Otherwise all are same. 

Today news

What’s in a name? A lot, it seems. The country’s two premier accounting bodies — the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) and the Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India (ICWAI) have locked horns over the government’s move to change their names.

It’s a 25-year-long battle between the two bodies that has risen in a crescendo. Recently, the ICWAI Amendment Bill, which calls for the removal of ‘works’ from the name of ICWAI, was passed in the Rajya Sabha. There also are talks of removing the word ‘chartered’, a so-called colonial word, from ICAI’s name.

ICWAI has demanded that the word management, instead, be added to its name, as is the practice in most other countries. It has accused ICAI of interfering in its matter and alleged that it is because of the latter’s vehement opposition the new proposed name that the word ‘management’ has not been included in its name.

“The qualification of Indian cost and works accounts professionals is not recognised and looked down upon by many abroad, while their counterparts from Pakistan and Thailand, with equivalent degrees of cost and management accounts, enjoy a preference,” argues ICWAI President M Gopalakrishnan.

On the other hand, ICAI President G Ramaswamy, questioning the use of ‘management’ in ICWAI’s name, asserts management is certainly not ICWAI’s domain. “Management is a generic term. The Parliamentary debate was very clear that the term management could not be given to this institution,” he adds.

However, he maintains that ICAI had no role in the recently passed Bill. It was Parliament’s standing committee on finance that had suggested dropping the word ‘works’, without replacing it with ‘management’.

“It is the wisdom of the Parliamentary standing committee”, he says, maintaining that his institution does not have a problem ICWAI continuing with ‘works’ in its name.

ICWAI says that in a debate in the Rajya Sabha on the issue, the government representatives argued against the use of a “colonial” word like ‘chartered’ in ICAI’s name. It claims that the government said this was a matter left to ICAI to consider.

ICWAI’s grouse is that it was not consulted before its name was proposed to be changed, while ICAI’s concerns are being taken into consideration. It has demanded that ICAI should be rechristened without the word ‘chartered’.

On this, Ramaswamy says: “Chartered was given to us in a 1949 Act of Parliament and no one has the right to question it.”

Gopalakrishnan adds that removing the word ‘works’ will leave ICWAI with the abbreviated name ICAI which will create more confusion. Ramaswamy contends: “They will have to think of another name, they just cannot use ICAI.”

In fact, Ramaswamy takes the controversy beyond the fight over names. “In today’s context, cost audit report is not required in an economy where you are removing government subsidies. Is it correct to share confidential competitive information with everyone,” he asks.

He adds that it may adversely affect “corporate management and competition secrecy”.

https://www.business-standard.com/india/news/accounting-bodies-slug-it-out/458869/

Reply in Business standard website by common man

Posted by: Subramanyam

Tell that dimheaded nitwit Ramaswamy that the input subsidies run into the coat he wears and the tea he drinks. He is living in India physically but mentally he is Timbaktu. Tell him that his profession is living on Charity of the Union of India. They are being fed to teeth but not being accountable to all the 'financial garbage' which they are generating. GTB/Satyam/ Ketan Parekh/2G/ Harshad Mehta and many more if judicial enquiries are conducted on the role of Auditors, 70% including himself may be in Tihar which may then be renamed as CA Jail. If the icai accounts are re-audited by some other professional then the CA Institute may reveal an entertaining scam. How can a CA audit accounts of icai????? 

It is most unfortunate ICAI opposes change of name of ICWAI to ICMAI.Being a member of both ICSI and ICWAI ,I feel members of ICWAI cannot get justice unless the ICWAI's central council pass a resolution changing the name of ICWAI to ICMAI and seek the approval of the Central Govt.If the Central Govt refuses or fails to convey its decision with in a reasonable time say 3 months,ICWAI can agitate the matter in the Supreme court where the lobbying power of ICAI  would fail totally and the rule of law alone would prevail.

Dear C.B, It is not me or you or Mr. Raj or somebody else puts a profession in its position where it is today. We come and go, but the profession and its standard and dignity sustains. All these professional bodies are blessed by legislations and have a great purpose behind each of its formation. We should not forget that. It is not the ego or complex or interest or disinterest of the people underneath it should be the driving force of a profession, rather, we should unite and uphold the purpose and values of each of these professions and move forward for the good of our country and ultimately for the good of the human kind., accepting the reality and knowing well our own "part" and "dialogues".

I personally do not see any purpose in being separated as CA and CMA considering current economic scenario, being much complex, grown, demanding and overlapping, and considering the services these two bodies are putting forward. Why don't we think of bringing these two as a single professional accounting body? I think our deliberations and effort should go in that way than a mere name change.

Do you think a person having all these three - ACA, AICWA and ACS - qualification oppose to this proposal just because that it will reduce his weightage to the one having only one membership??

Shyam and freinds 

Criticims are most welcome. But facts prevail. and I am with same.

Dear Freinds,

See how   name of our country was named as India.

The name of the river entered Greek from Persian, with the loss of the initial 'h', to become Indos, from which the Greeks derived their name for the region, India. The Latin form of Indos is Indus, the name by which the river system is still known in the West. Its name was given to the entire subcontinent by the Romans, who adapted it to the current India.

The word India is the form used by Europeans over the ages.

Sindhu is also the Sanskrit term for Ocean and for any large water body. It would specifically mean the modern river Indus, if ancient Indic originated there. It could just mean "water dwellers" as well.

Interestingly, the Vedas did not assign any particular name for India, although some scholars assert that references to Indu in the Rig Veda relate to India's present name. Many traditional literary/cultural works from around the globe lack definite terminology for their home culture as a political unit; China, Greece, and many other civilizations lacked fixed names for themselves in traditional literature of their early periods.

In the Matsya Purana 126, the length of India (Bharatavarsa) is 9,000 puranic yojanas, which is a good estimation.

Listed by, among others, Colonel James Todd in his Annals of Rajputana, he describes the ancient India under control of tribes claiming descent from the Moon, or "Indu", and their influence in Trans-Indian regions where they referred to the land as Industhan. This explanation might serve better to explain the term Hindu. Having said that, ancient Greeks do mention the Indic tribes or related tribes (could be of Iranian origin or joint Indo-Iranian origin) inhabiting what is now Ukraine as Sindoi or Sindkoi.

The name India was known in Anglo-Saxon, and was used in King Alfred's translation of Orosius. In Middle English, the name was, under French influence, replaced by Ynde or Inde, which entered early modern English as Indie. The use of the name India dates from the 17th century onwards, and may be due to the influence of Latin, or Spanish or Portuguese.

Can ICWAI as k GOI to first remove the Word "India " becaase it is the name given by outsiers , then how we bhartiya can have word " India "

I think our ICWAI demand GOI to remove the word India.

Again , our CWA freinds will say it s irrational , but this is the fact. We ourselves were never Indian , we were bhartiya.

Now Indus Valley is not situated in India ( Now  beary Indo afgan Boarder) and we do not have its originators ( Greeks, Poutugals and english , westerns) , then what is relevant for bhart to be callled as India or Republic of India)

Reply in Business standard website by a common man

Posted by: Subramanyam

Tell that dimheaded nitwit Ramaswamy that the input subsidies run into the coat he wears and the tea he drinks. He is living in India physically but mentally he is Timbaktu. Tell him that his profession is living on Charity of the Union of India. They are being fed to teeth but not being accountable to all the 'financial garbage' which they are generating. GTB/Satyam/ Ketan Parekh/2G/ Harshad Mehta and many more if judicial enquiries are conducted on the role of Auditors, 70% including himself may be in Tihar which may then be renamed as CA Jail. If the icai accounts are re-audited by some other professional then the CA Institute may reveal an entertaining scam. How can a CA audit accounts of icai?????